83 replies to this topic

[Francisco R. Fonseca]

I don't Sansa is, or if she is it hasn't been revealed. Since Lady died so early on it's hard to tell. Rickon I believe it'll be revealed in TWOW that he has been warging w/Shaggydog, not sure how it'd be revealed though since I'd hate to see a Rickon POV. Maybe he can have told Osha about a wolf dream. As far as the elder Starks go, I did a theory somewhere online that Benjen was a warg, I think that's related to the theory that he's Coldhands, i'll have to try and find it and post it here. I think the assumption though that's it connected to people who descended from the First Men is a good one thoughh.

[Rachel Lynn Sanders]

I liked the theory that Sansa will be able to fight Littlefinger with her abilities. Right now they are getting along but I'm sure that the next book will bring them to odds. Like does she like Littlefinger? Because if she doesn't then can she seriously think that when he kissed her in the last book it was as his fake role as her father? Besides Arya is smart I think she may know some about her warging abilities in that she did see through the eyes of a cat. I think George R.R. Martin should bring Rickon into POV.
Does anyone know if the next book will start where the last left off?

[kittenmittens]

If they Stark trait of Warging came from anywhere, it came from having the blood of the Children of the Forest, IMO.

[Valkyrja]

Rachel Lynn Sanders, on 30 June 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I liked the theory that Sansa will be able to fight Littlefinger with her abilities. Right now they are getting along but I'm sure that the next book will bring them to odds. Like does she like Littlefinger? Because if she doesn't then can she seriously think that when he kissed her in the last book it was as his fake role as her father? Besides Arya is smart I think she may know some about her warging abilities in that she did see through the eyes of a cat. I think George R.R. Martin should bring Rickon into POV.
Does anyone know if the next book will start where the last left off?

No, she doesn't like him 'like that', and his increasingly sexual advances make her very uncomfortable. But she views him as two people -- Littlefinger, the one she is more wary of, who did nothing to help her in King's Landing, and Petyr Baelish, her 'father' who is her only 'friend' at the moment.

[Valkyrja]

Francisco R. Fonseca, on 26 June 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

I don't Sansa is, or if she is it hasn't been revealed. Since Lady died so early on it's hard to tell. Rickon I believe it'll be revealed in TWOW that he has been warging w/Shaggydog, not sure how it'd be revealed though since I'd hate to see a Rickon POV. Maybe he can have told Osha about a wolf dream. As far as the elder Starks go, I did a theory somewhere online that Benjen was a warg, I think that's related to the theory that he's Coldhands, i'll have to try and find it and post it here. I think the assumption though that's it connected to people who descended from the First Men is a good one thoughh.

I'm pretty sure GRRM said all the Stark children have the ability --- some just have not had the chance to embrace it (especially Sansa, because her wolf was killed so early on). It has been theorized that Sansa's warging ability has instead shown up in her innate sense of empathy and compassion towards people and her ability to read people. Not that she is directly warging people (though that has also been speculated, though I'm not sure I agree with that or not), but that she is like a natural empath, or becoming one.

[Jovem Corvo]

There is this theory that states that Sansa almost warged Sandor in book 2, when he demanded her to sing for him. That's why she thinks that he kissed her, when he declared somewhere in the further books that he didn't. Particularly, I do find that scene a lot strange, there are gaps in her memory that could indicate she was really "touching" his soul (almost warging).

And Sansa has a talent for understanding people's emotion. Maybe the wires cut at Lady's death are still there and her abilities as a warg are waiting......

[Jovem Corvo]

And Robb had wolf dreams too.
He was a warg but couldn't develop his abilities due to further... happenings...

[winterbird]

I think they did show that she was linked as such with Lady because Lady they said was always calm and gently mannered, which is unusual for a wolf.  The Stark children all project into their wolves and the wolves turn on the ones they don't like.  I think Lady's docile nature really shows that it is Sansa controlling her.  I often wonder how Lady would have acted in the second book had she survived. I think she would have acted according to Sansa's inner feelings and been more out of control, etc.

But the wolves were just a starting point and according to Sixskins the easiest animal to slip into.  I do think she will utalize her power in later books.  I need to go back and read the dreams etc that had been posted before to see if we get a hint of what her animal will be.

[Purah]

I think Sansa's ability is just dormant and more on an empathetic level, as she frequently has dreams of Lady (although you could also interpret this as her wish to return home and be somewhere safe) to the point of being able to feel a wolf's presence. And although this may be an isolated incident, I think the the she spent on the Fingers also implies her warging abilities, when one of Littlefinger's old dogs forms quite an attachment to her. Heck, it even emulates Sansa's discomfort when Marillion approaches her by growling at him.

There's also a theory that she warged into the dog that sniffed Joffrey's corpse, as although she fled the feast before seeing him die, she knew that he was dead even before the bells began to toll.

But hell this might be all just fan-wank on my part hahaha

[Cersay Goldenlocks]

A Stark in Salem, on 01 May 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I see a real potential for her to unlock her power: with Bran getting hooked into the weirwood matrix, it is only a matter of time until he reaches out to her. After all she spends more time in the various God's woods than all the other children together. I for one would relish her warging into Nymeria for the express purpose of eating Littlefinger alive.

Haha! I like your last sentence

[wolfmaid7]

As loads of people have said-GRRM himself- all the Stark children could Warg, Sansa may not have experianced wolf dreams due to Lady dying early. I have a theory about warging abilities seeming to be deeper than just "slipping skin".they all seem to have something in their personality that is heightened by the warging ability.

Robb- I HAVE NO CLUE
Jon-  The prophet warg who becomes and unwilling leader though he has the qualities.
Sansa- The Empath Warg ;needed to play the game of politics hey an ace in the hole if you can read people
Arya-The Assassin Warg; anyone and no one
Bran-The Wildman Warg; good when you want to cause serious damage un-tamable
Rickon-The Wizard; the wise sage that sees all he's like the command center.

But to go back to the Sansa question i think she can be the one to easily warg people because of her emphatic ability.

Crackpot theory

Edited by wolfmaid7, 24 November 2012 - 02:08 AM.

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

If Sansa comprehends the lessons she was taught from Cersei and Littlefinger she will become a bitch and won't have to skinchange to one.......

But imo she will find out of her powers eventually but not at the level her siblings have....

You speak for her having an empathy or looiking inside someone. please explain where do you see this because in my point of view she is fooled every single time  and her empathy is just a result of her sensitive nature......

[Ludd]

I have a theory that as part of the pact with the CoF each of the 100 families received a gift - warg into an animal or perhaps a plant.

Some animals we can identify with houses and I suspect warging

Certain
  Dire wolf  - stark and weirwood
  Bear - Mormant
  Raven - Blackwood - but also some connection with the tree


Highly likely
  Unicorn - one of the Skagos houses
  Mammoth (probably the thenn)
  Squirrel - Liddle
  Horse - Ryswell
  Something in the sea - Manderley -
  Kraken  - Grey joy
  Trout- Tully


Other known sigils where warging is likely
Boar
Goat
Stag
Trout

[FacelessDude]

It's unintentionally Sansa's fault that Lady died. She said "I don't know" when asked if she saw what happened during the Joffrey and Arya confrontation after Joffrey assaults Mycah (I wanted to slap her when I read that part). Personally I think the death of Lady was symbolic to Sansa's character in that she is no longer identified as a Stark because she had to change her name after fleeing KL with Littlefinger.

I don't think Sansa will ever be able to warg even though she may have the ability. She's very Stark-less.

Edited by FacelessDude, 10 December 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[RedtheWarrior]

I think one of the reasons Sansa's warging abilities were less prominent than the others was because as she projected her personality to Lady, Lady became less connected with the other direwolves.  I think it it was in one of Bran's wolf dreams where he talked about his sister who spent so much time in the stone houses of men that she became more like one of them, or something like that.  

FacelessDude, on 10 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Personally I think the death of Lady was symbolic to Sansa's character in that she is no longer identified as a Stark because she had to change her name after fleeing KL with Littlefinger.

I don't think Sansa will ever be able to warg even though she may have the ability. She's very Stark-less.

.
I think Sansa's journey will take her back to being a Stark, she rejected a lot of the North at the beginning in preference for the glamorous south but the trials she's been through since then have forced her to grow up a lot and she's already started praying to the Old Gods instead of the seven.  I do agree that Lady's death is symbolic though, it scares me.  But at least she never rejected Lady, like Robb did.  That did not work out well for him.

[Elba the Intoner]

FacelessDude, on 10 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

It's unintentionally Sansa's fault that Lady died. She said "I don't know" when asked if she saw what happened during the Joffrey and Arya confrontation after Joffrey assaults Mycah (I wanted to slap her when I read that part). Personally I think the death of Lady was symbolic to Sansa's character in that she is no longer identified as a Stark because she had to change her name after fleeing KL with Littlefinger.

I don't think it was really her fault.  Cersei said in Tyrion's first POV chapter that she did not want those wolves going on the road with them.  In that chapter with Arya and Sansa being brought before a hostile crowd to tell their story of what happened, Cersei was out for blood.  She wanted a wolf pelt and wanted a wolf dead from the beginning and she got her wish by goading Robert into giving in.  Also, Sansa had told Ned what had happened on the Trident but Ned did not intervene here to tell the Lannisters what Sansa had already told him.  And what if Sansa had actually told the truth of what she had seen?  She would have had to say that Nymeria did attack and bite Joffrey.  That was the truth.  In which case as I already pointed out, Cersei would have had even more reason to go after a wolf, and Lady was the only one around at that point, (not to mention that Cersei would have more evidence to go after Arya as well to punish her somehow.  Later Jaime thinks to himself how Cersei wanted him to find Arya first and cut off her hand and admits that he would have done it if he had found her.)  So, sadly Lady was doomed no matter what.

FacelessDude, on 10 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I don't think Sansa will ever be able to warg even though she may have the ability. She's very Stark-less.

Really?  The girl who built Winterfell out of snow and literally took snow into her body is Stark-less?  The girl who visits the godswood over and over and later seems to miss having a godswood in the Eyrie is Stark-less?  The girl whose personality is so very much like Ned's is Stark-less?  The girl who thinks she is stronger in the walls of Winterfell (snow Winterfell scene) is Stark-less?  The girl who hears the wind howling and thinks it sounds like a wolf and that gives her the courage and strength to drag an epileptic boy on the verge of seizing over a treacherous, icy land saddle is Stark-less?

Littlefinger of the Hand, on 26 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

You speak for her having an empathy or looiking inside someone. please explain where do you see this because in my point of view she is fooled every single time  and her empathy is just a result of her sensitive nature......

We see many examples of her empathy and compassion.  After Sandor tells her about how he got his burns she feels afraid for him and touches his shoulder.  At the end of the Battle of the Blackwater when Sandor comes to her room all drunk and despairing she diffuses the situation by reaching out to touch the burned side of his face on instinct, not really knowing why.  She intervenes to save Ser Dontos, she speaks kindly to Lollys when trying to get her inside Maegors before the BBB, she helps Lancel after Cersei punches him in his wound even though Lancel was a Lannister who laughed at her when Joff had her beaten, and she speaks up to calm the frightened women and children in Maegors when Cersei runs off, again not really know why she was doing any of these things but acting on instinct.  Tyrion notes that Sansa has a way with people and knows how to make small talk with them and make the feel comfortable and that she would have made a great Queen for Joff.  She takes care of Sweetrobin and is doing a very good job of it despite how difficult and annoying he can be and she is on the only person he trusts right now.  She also manages to figure out LF's scheme with Lynn Corbray by watching intently what is going on and noticing how Corbray and Lothor Brune, nod to each other and how Corbray does not smile with his eyes.  She's become very perceptive and attuned to what people are thinking and feeling.

winterbird, on 10 July 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

But the wolves were just a starting point and according to Sixskins the easiest animal to slip into.  I do think she will utalize her power in later books.  I need to go back and read the dreams etc that had been posted before to see if we get a hint of what her animal will be.

There is much bird and flying imagery in Sansa's story and I think this hints that she may warg a bird at some point.  Now that she is down from the very isolated Eyrie and in the Vale where there is more life and animals I am hoping it will be soon.  Given that her nickname is Little Bird and that is also what Varys calls the children he uses in his spy network, I am wondering if Sansa will warg a bird and somehow learn through that how LF was behind her father's downfall.  That would awaken her true wolf nature (we saw a spark of it when she moved to push Joffrey into the dry moat before the Hound stopped her) and take down LF herself.

[Podrick's Bane]

aryana, on 26 June 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

I was thinking Lyanna was a warg, furthermore my idea was, that she must had warged (subconciously or at least had wolf dreams about) the direwolf mother that was found dead by Jon and Robb. It's a bit streched theory since it would mean the direwolf would have to be at least 15 years old, but we don't know much about direwolves anyway. If a normal dog can live up to 15, a direwolf could surely live longer and still be fertile at that age.

Don't forget the multiple mentions of Lyanna's connection to horses.

[Starks Among Us]

aryana, on 26 June 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

I was thinking Lyanna was a warg, furthermore my idea was, that she must had warged (subconciously or at least had wolf dreams about) the direwolf mother that was found dead by Jon and Robb. It's a bit streched theory since it would mean the direwolf would have to be at least 15 years old, but we don't know much about direwolves anyway. If a normal dog can live up to 15, a direwolf could surely live longer and still be fertile at that age.
Noone has seen a direwolf south of the Wall for two hundred years, and now there comes one so far south as Winterfell. I think she just somehow knew where to come (but don't ask me how she came across the Wall). And she was struggling with a deer and was killed by him.

On the other hand I never thought Sansa and Robb were wargs (not sure for Rickon either). They did have special connections with their direwolves, but i saw no other indications. Again, a normal dog can feel its masters moods and act that way, a direwolf even more, specially because the children were the only mother they knew. But, hey, if GRRM says they are all wargs, i belive it ...

I never thought of this before, but it could be. I mean, (this is even more far-fetched than yours) but, what IF the wolf and deer were just a red-herring...everyone thought it meant Ned and Robert, but what if it was really about Lyanna and Robert? When Theon has one of his dreams he dreams of Lyanna covered in "gore", not blood, "gore" , and there is a part in the FAQ regarding Roberts Rebellion where he fought 3 days at Summerall (not terribly far from ToJ) perhaps somehow he saw Lyanna and hurt her in some way? VERY far fetched VERY unlikely especially as he did nothing but whine about how much he loved her.

[FacelessDude]

Elba the Intoner, on 17 December 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

I don't think it was really her fault.  Cersei said in Tyrion's first POV chapter that she did not want those wolves going on the road with them.  In that chapter with Arya and Sansa being brought before a hostile crowd to tell their story of what happened, Cersei was out for blood.  She wanted a wolf pelt and wanted a wolf dead from the beginning and she got her wish by goading Robert into giving in.  Also, Sansa had told Ned what had happened on the Trident but Ned did not intervene here to tell the Lannisters what Sansa had already told him.  And what if Sansa had actually told the truth of what she had seen?  She would have had to say that Nymeria did attack and bite Joffrey.  That was the truth.  In which case as I already pointed out, Cersei would have had even more reason to go after a wolf, and Lady was the only one around at that point, (not to mention that Cersei would have more evidence to go after Arya as well to punish her somehow.  Later Jaime thinks to himself how Cersei wanted him to find Arya first and cut off her hand and admits that he would have done it if he had found her.)  So, sadly Lady was doomed no matter what.

Really?  The girl who built Winterfell out of snow and literally took snow into her body is Stark-less?  The girl who visits the godswood over and over and later seems to miss having a godswood in the Eyrie is Stark-less?  The girl whose personality is so very much like Ned's is Stark-less?  The girl who thinks she is stronger in the walls of Winterfell (snow Winterfell scene) is Stark-less?  The girl who hears the wind howling and thinks it sounds like a wolf and that gives her the courage and strength to drag an epileptic boy on the verge of seizing over a treacherous, icy land saddle is Stark-less?

We see many examples of her empathy and compassion.  After Sandor tells her about how he got his burns she feels afraid for him and touches his shoulder.  At the end of the Battle of the Blackwater when Sandor comes to her room all drunk and despairing she diffuses the situation by reaching out to touch the burned side of his face on instinct, not really knowing why.  She intervenes to save Ser Dontos, she speaks kindly to Lollys when trying to get her inside Maegors before the BBB, she helps Lancel after Cersei punches him in his wound even though Lancel was a Lannister who laughed at her when Joff had her beaten, and she speaks up to calm the frightened women and children in Maegors when Cersei runs off, again not really know why she was doing any of these things but acting on instinct.  Tyrion notes that Sansa has a way with people and knows how to make small talk with them and make the feel comfortable and that she would have made a great Queen for Joff.  She takes care of Sweetrobin and is doing a very good job of it despite how difficult and annoying he can be and she is on the only person he trusts right now.  She also manages to figure out LF's scheme with Lynn Corbray by watching intently what is going on and noticing how Corbray and Lothor Brune, nod to each other and how Corbray does not smile with his eyes.  She's become very perceptive and attuned to what people are thinking and feeling.

There is much bird and flying imagery in Sansa's story and I think this hints that she may warg a bird at some point.  Now that she is down from the very isolated Eyrie and in the Vale where there is more life and animals I am hoping it will be soon.  Given that her nickname is Little Bird and that is also what Varys calls the children he uses in his spy network, I am wondering if Sansa will warg a bird and somehow learn through that how LF was behind her father's downfall.  That would awaken her true wolf nature (we saw a spark of it when she moved to push Joffrey into the dry moat before the Hound stopped her) and take down LF herself.

She could've said "Joffrey sliced Mycah's face with Lion's Tooth when Arya and him were playing, then Arya hit Joffrey with a stick. Joffrey then went after her with his sword, but Nymeria bit his arm to protect her." Robert would've probably just left things as they were and not let Cersei get her way. Since the king and queen already saw visible bite wounds from a direwolf pup then Sansa wouldn't even be giving much away.

But I'm currently re-reading the series and when I first read the books I didn't like Sansa very much. But she was very innocent and ignorant at first, she does develop. I will admit that she is a good person, much more so later on.

[white wolfpack]

I don't see much evidence for Sansa having super (or even normal) empathic abilities at all.   I was hoping to like her more on the re-read but so far (finished GoT for 2nd time) I'm finding I like her less.  I didn't notice the first time how much she thinks of Jon as her "bastard half brother" (none of the other kids do that.). And Joffrey!  Most people realize he's a pathological creep within seconds, and she still wants to marry him even after the wolf thing?  So much happened, and he basically had to behead her father before she saw it.  Arya and jon, on the other hand, seemed to instinctively dislike him, like a dog (or wolf) would.  Sansa doesn't seem to have these sort of instincts.  Most of the behavior listed above as examples of her empathy can just as easily be attributed to her learning ladylike behavior fom the septa (see "little bird" talk with sandor).