Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:28 AM
ok, i've read again and I have to bite
1) I don't know whether you read this properly or are a bit confused with regards to sex but her first sex scenes with Drogo are not pleasant for her, it is rape and she does not have a good time until she falls for him (whether thats genuine or stockholm sydrome style is down to the individual reader). I think there's a quote like "if she cried out now, it wasn't always in pain".
2) Did it not occur to you why Drogo chose her instead of another Dothraki? He ruled the biggest Khalisar was young strong and ambitious. Did he have ambitions above that of a Dothraki, probably. He was open to changing traditions, just as he was happy to have his heir half Valyrian. Its about power, where do you go when your at the top, you move up a level.
3) I don't know how she was raised as a westerosi princess. From my reading she grew up mainly in a modest house with a red door in Bravos bullied by her brother looking fearfully over her shoulder for percieved assassins. She spent her more recent years in a mansion in Pentos but this still seems far from her being treated as a princess, I can't even remember her mentioning whether she was ever able to leave the mansion or if she had any friends, entourage there befitting a princess.
4) She get's pregnant. There's a 50/50 chance of it being a boy and we do in fact have no proof that it actually turned out to be so. They proclaimed him as the saviour. - That doesn't mean the child would have been, there are a lot of people particulaly children that are proclaimed as saviour. They are also ritually giving blessings on the child of the most powerful man in their culture, they aren't going to say he'll be a rubbish warrior and a nobody are they?
5) As I commented above. He does stupid things because he is stupid and self obsessed. The announcement of Dany's pregnancy has given the Dothraki a more preferable candidate for the Iron Throne. He sees his lifes ambition and all the plans his made in his head going pop and lashes out - again its in his character to lash out, Wake the Dragon ect.
6) Her believing shes running from usurper knives. We know Robert didn't send any but do you not think that statement says something about her brother's paranoia or his methods of controlling her? She qualifies the claim with thats what Viserys said and herself mentions she never saw any proof of it.
7) Assassin from Westeros? Did you think they sent an assassin from Westeros to get her. He would have stuck out like a sore thumb. They paid a more local assassin to carry out the task. There are plenty of assassins and cutthroats in Essos we've seen enough evidence in that. Jorah was a spy yes but as you point out they have never ordered the assassination of the Targs before. Asking him to be complicit in her death would be more out of character for him than him stepping into save her. You also haven't taken into account who's spy he is. He reports to Varys and what he was ordered to do is not clear yet.
8) Drogo and her child dying is not exactly her being lucky, she ends up in a really weak position. The Maegi reveals life pays for life, well she needed to in order to get her to allow her magic and couldn't have predicted she could hatch dragons.
9) The immune to fire seems to be a one off magical event possibly related to the comet or AA prophecy, it is a fantasy series magic comes with the territory and it is an awsome finale to a awesome book.
10) She crosses the desert, she does loose some of her people and it is described as harrowing. But your surprised she made it? In real life similar feats have been achieved from Neolithic man to Laurence of Arabia so you can give a fictional main character a break on this one.
11) As mentioned above they can't detect dragons. One of Dany's outriders finds them and brings them to her. She sends them out scouting IIRC but its not too much of a stretch to believe they are looking for her, a group that large would leave tracks not to mention could be spotted on the terrain. They of course wouldn't know anything other than a bunch of strangers are wandering the desert over there.
12) She gets lots of gifts and aid. She is a stranger with the only living dragons receiving gifts from rich traders to see them is not out of question. If you wondering why they didn't just kill her and take her dragons. They are a civilisation if a stranger came visiting my country with a mystical creature and I killed him for it I'm pretty sure I'd end up in jail pretty quickly. Plus she is aparantly quite attractive (though young) so its not beyond traders to want to marry to get her dragons.
13+14+15) He didn't lead her to a trap. IIRC he didn't want her to see them he wanted her to deal with him only. He took her there not knowing what the undying would do with her.Drogon is tuned in like the Direwolves are and lashes out when Dany is scared. After she accidently destroys the undying the trader is angry and attacks her. Your surprised that her seasoned warrior was able to prevent this trader?. As for the visions and the undying themselves, its not 100% known what they were doing to her in there or when they decided to attack, they were possibly using the visions to see themselves what her future would be watching them with her. Only when they discovered what lies ahead did they decide to attack,
16) Ok this is a coincidence though its not 100% known who sent the assassin, it could have been a ploy by Illyrio to earn her trust as Jorah pointed out.
17) Illyrio is a trader and sends ships to a major trading port. He tells his captain to take her aboard for the return journey. Trading ships are never usually empty. They take stuff to a port, sell stuff at said port, buy stuff with the money they've made and take that stuff back home to sell and make money with. It is not certain the captain will do what she says when Jorah suggests it. Luckily for her the captain seems amiable to her, was he from Westeros I can't remember.
18) The ships don't sink, these were trading ships with an experienced crew not an armada. If 1/3 of Illyrios ships sank every time he sent them to Quath he'd really start loosing out on money.
19) She went to slavers bay to get the Unsullied so its not a coincidence she found them there when she arrived. Jorah told her about them, how did Jorah know you ask, well its pretty well explained hes travelled well in Essos since living the last what 5-8 years in exile.
20) They got cheated out of the unsullied. On the face of it the events behind this does make them out to be idiots. Did their greed blind them, did they see it as their only chance to get a dragon and took the risk or perhaps they did not believe even if she ordered it the Unsullied would turn on their former masters. they'd trained them for years beat obedience into them and she'd had them for seconds. Maybe they underestimated the Unsullied soldiers opportunism and desire for revenge.
21) I can't remember her demonstrating any strategic or tactically knowledge but if you've got examples of her making decisions on her own regarding her formations/battleplans ect quote them. I remember Tyrion repeatedly finding flaws with the way Mereen was defended and the deployent of her elite troops as policemen.
22) I don't understand this point, betrayal is often a personal thing, so Jorah didn't commit the red wedding, that doesn't mean it didn't impact her emotionally and is an example of something she's had to overcome so to rubbish it like this is stupid.
23) Does she not loose her ships in this seige? She won the city through a trick it has happened many times in history Belarousius for one was very good at that. I think one of the Gisgards as well, actually I think Gisguard itself means cunning so it might have been Robert Gisgard himself.
24) I must be honest I can't remember this part and lent my book out
25) It's not clear if quathie is helping or hindering Dany. in my opinion Dany spends so much time thinking about 3 treasons she will suffer that she is begging to sound like her father.
26) She's not immune to diseases, that is never stated. She just thinks she is because she's a targ and targs think like that. she does infact appear ill at the end of ADWD though it is unclear if that is a miscarriage, poison or illness.
27) They didn't catch the disease for a reason not a mere plot device, they are clearly described as washing in sea water everyday its this or a ritual like this that probably keeps them from catching it.
28) Her decisions had constantly come back to bite her, ignoring her dragons for instant resulting in a dead child. The harpy murdering with impunity, having to marry Hizz-face, nearly getting poisoned?
29) All her enemies are being kept from taking her seriously as there too busy with their own problems, and Varys controlls what they hear. Qyburn on the other hand doesn't have the connections Varys could have abroad. Connections Varys could still be using to lead them a stray.
30) Aegon doesn't appear to me to be a benefit for her. He has a better claim to the throne than her and her whole life revolves around her being the rightful ruler. The title ADWD also indicates they will oppose each other as the Targ civil war was called the Dance of Dragons. Did you miss all of this?
31) You mean she's taken away at the point the city needs her the most. On the eve of battle where her persona and her dragons are needed. Where shes stranded trying to tame a wild beast that could easily kill her not to mention the Dothraki that approach her at the end? Yeah the lucky bitch.
32) She is the dragon's mother, and Drogon has always been close to her. He seems as bonded as the Starks are to their Direwolves and this is a fantasy series
33) Are the red priests her ally. She hasn't met one has she, they are definately curious about her but I thought the whole Volantis chapter indicated that it was the slaves who were desperate to help her as she freed slaves.
34) When I last looked nothing was solved, Barristan is doing his best but it is very much a cliffhanger and a battle's about to start.
35) Victarian is not neccessarily a good thing
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Lykos, on 20 March 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:
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