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The Lands of Ice and Fire: a new map book out in Oct 2012


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#21 Werthead

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

It'll be available in the UK right?


Yup. If Voyager doesn't release a UK-specific version, then copies should be available online from Amazon and Book Depository. Based on the success of the show and the books, UK bookshops may even get copies in directly from the States (Waterstones had plenty of copies of the American ASoIaF calendar, for example).

#22 Ice Turtle

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

I'm most psyched about the Braavos map.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#23 genesis

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:01 PM

Werthead, on your blog you mentioned that allegedly there are 8 new maps but the maths doesn't work. I wonder whether the map of the lands beyond the Wall is actually new, rather than a reprint, in that it could be more detailed and show for example where the Three-Eyed Crow's lair is etc, maybe even offering some semi-spoilery tantalising references e.g. Citadel of the Others or some such...

#24 Werthead

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

Werthead, on your blog you mentioned that allegedly there are 8 new maps but the maths doesn't work. I wonder whether the map of the lands beyond the Wall is actually new, rather than a reprint, in that it could be more detailed and show for example where the Three-Eyed Crow's lair is etc, maybe even offering some semi-spoilery tantalising references e.g. Citadel of the Others or some such...


I suspect that all the maps will be 'new' to some extent: the map of Westeros will - hopefully - include every single location noted to date. The different maps seem to show different locations rather than there being one exhaustively-detailed 'supermap' which I hope this will be.

It's also possible the maps may contain different things. The Slaver's Bay map might be larger and incorporate more of Sothoroys or Lhazar, for example.

#25 Darth Rivers

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:25 AM

Will this be in any way coordinated with GRRM? Or will it be non-canon?

#26 Crown

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

Will this be in any way coordinated with GRRM? Or will it be non-canon?


GRRM said in an interview: 'I've been working on maps lately, since Bantam called me and said that wanted to make a book with maps,' atleast something like that. So I'm sure he's creating the rough concepts of the maps.

#27 Roose Seal

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

I don't even own a map of earth or an atlas of earth, but I'll consider buying this. Priorities ...

#28 Darth Rivers

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

^There is no "Google Westeros".

#29 theMountainGoat

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:54 AM

There is no "Google Westeros".

It's only a matter of time....

#30 Werthead

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:43 PM

Will this be in any way coordinated with GRRM? Or will it be non-canon?


Yeah, GRRM created the maps for the set. Or rather he drew up rough versions and then a professional artist will create new versions of them. It'll all be based on GRRM's work and will all be canon. So will (as far as I know) the map of Essos HBO will unveil on their website at the weekend.

^There is no "Google Westeros".


There is, in very rough, speculative and non-canonical form, on LordMountainGoat's website (linked above) /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#31 theMountainGoat

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:22 AM

Actually that's not strictly speaking very Google-maps like. It's just a single image which you can zoom in and out. In fact that's a problem for me because the canvas size of the Flash document won't accept larger images and that means I basically need to start again and redo the entire animation and interface.

To properly emulate Google-maps I need to use separate images for each square of the map. These are organised like a mosaic when you're zoomed out and then hides adjacent images to the square you're on when zoomed in. This is substantially more complicated to do unless you're using the Google Maps API which I'm not entirely sure I want to do. Besides I don't know that the way I've created the animations will still work using this kind of set-up.

I'm considering my options on where to go next. I'd like to stop using Flash altogether and try HTML 5 instead. Unfortunately the tools are not quite there yet to be able to recreate this in HTML 5 but hopefully by the time my timeline spreadsheet is complete later this year they'll be up to the task.


Actually there is a very Google-maps like version of the map which is in Russian. I was trying to find the link for it but my Google-fu failed me. There are plans afoot to create an English version of that map for the Wiki of Ice and Fire but I don't know how far along they are with that.

#32 Werthead

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:02 PM

I screencapped the brief glimpse we got of the new 'super-Essos' map on the new HBO Go promo.

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

Image 3 is mostly obscured by the pop-up, but worth looking at for the location of Ibben is revealed, right in the very top-right corner. That's substantially further east than previously indicated. GRRM suggested it was about 1,000 miles east of Westeros, but it's more like 3,000. I'm surprised the Ibbenese ever bother travelling to Westeros or the Free Cities, that's like crossing the Atlantic (although they can hug the coast for most of the way, which is safer). I also wonder if we've found out what Lorath's principal trade is. Given their locations, Lorath must be the Free City that does the most business with Ibben.

Still, pretty cool. I wonder if the Mother of Mountains and Vaes Dothrak are on the map? Also intrigued by the massive river north of the Dothraki Sea. Not quite as long as the Rhoyne, but that's one hell of a delta it has.

#33 GrandPoobah

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

Image 3

Image 3 is mostly obscured by the pop-up, but worth looking at for the location of Ibben is revealed, right in the very top-right corner. That's substantially further east than previously indicated. GRRM suggested it was about 1,000 miles east of Westeros, but it's more like 3,000.


Ever seen maps that are seriously distorted in the way that they depict a globe via a flat two-dimensional model? Some do it by way of rips/tears in the map, others do it by stretching the lands that are further from the equator. We don't actually know for sure that this world is spherical and not flat, but I wouldn't be stunned if it were.

This map strangely enough depicts the same world that this one does...

Both likely misrepresent the relative size of Antarctica, but they sure do paint very different pictures of Alaska, huh?

Edited by GrandPoobah, 30 March 2012 - 12:41 AM.


#34 theMountainGoat

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:09 AM

Thanks for the screencaps Wert /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

The location of Ibben tracks with the notes George sent about my speculative map. He also said the Summer Isles are further east and south, in line with the Narrow Sea and Naath, and the islands are much bigger too.

I'm working on an update but I've been waiting to see this new map from HBO before really getting into it. Do you know if it goes any further east? Qarth is the location we really need to see.


GrandPoobah - you may be interested to see my Google Earth project. This is my speculative map pasted onto a globe, though because of the stretching effect at the corners I have positioned the image over the equator rather than much farther north where it ought to be. I would like to find some way of positioning this so it avoids the stretching otherwise the Wall ends up being considerably less than 300 miles long which is a problem because this is what defines the map scale.

I really need to experiment with positioning a separate smaller image of the north of Westeros on the globe but I fear the problem with that will be lining it up perfectly with the rest of the landmass. Once the full map of the known world is finished some time early next year I will try to find a way to make this work.

Edited by lordMountainGoat, 30 March 2012 - 05:24 AM.


#35 Werthead

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:27 AM

Here's a cleaned-up version I put together. More or less canon apart from the location of Vaes Dothrak, which I had to guess about, and the southern tip of the Ghiscari region, which was just off the edge of the screencap map.

The HBO spiel says the new Viewer's Guide map will the 'the first official map of Essos ever published'. That sounds to me like it will be the whole continent, though maybe not. It will certainly show Qarth and the Red Waste (you can see the western edge of the Red Waste on the screencaps, so Qarth is likely not far to the east). GRRM says his maps in The Lands of Ice and Fire will go as far east as Asshai, which is interesting as that may not be the whole continent (the Shadow Lands lie beyond and they might not be included).

Guess we'll see in a few days /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#36 The hairy bear

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:34 AM

Good work Wert!

I'm glad we are able to piece together the different maps we had unitl now. Westerosii carthography has made an impressive advance! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

That said, am i the only one who's got the feeling that the continental structure of this world looks weird? It seems as it spans only across two huge rectangular shapes: a vertical one for Westeros and an horizontal one for Essos. Do you think that I only have this impression because I'm too used to see those maps prineted the rectangular pages of a paperback, or there's somenthing else here?

#37 Werthead

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:20 AM

I think we can safely assume that, as well as genetics, plate tectonics, mountain-building processes and river-formation techniques radically differ (at least partially) from our norms on Martinworld /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#38 Ran

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:24 AM

HBO's map will be inaccurate further east than Lhazar, more or less.

George completely wiped out his original plans for the areas further east about ... four weeks ago, and HBO's maps are based on older versions of his Essos map.

#39 Werthead

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:24 AM

Ha. I'm assuming they'll have based Qarth's appearance in the TV title sequence off the same old maps, so that means the TV and books will have differing maps of Essos (but still canon to each incarnation).

That's quite amusing. We still won't have an accurate map of Book Essos until October? /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

#40 Died a Hero

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:27 AM

George said himself, "I knew I was doomed when I drew the map." Will be nice to see the whole world in detail so when I go back and reread the series, which seems to happen at least once every year, I won't have to look online, which I hate, to find a place I overlooked on the 1st passing.