255 replies to this topic

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

Almost all the characters have haters in this forum, be it Tyrion, Starks, Barristan or Sansa.
But no one hates Renly.
To me Renly sucks more than most of  the characters  because:
1 He was self-obssesed . He waged a war because he THOUGHT he was a good king. He had no right, he was rebelling against a person who he thought was his nephew and his own brother just because he was handsome and well dressed.

2 He was inefficient. It was Stannis who caught Janos Slynt taking bribes and Jon Arryn presented the evidence to the council but it was Renly's job. Renly was the justicar not Stannis. A justicar is the one who is supposed to deal with corruption and all.All Renly did was to make jokes with Littlefinger.

3 He was soooo not funny and made lame attempts at it. Stannis pwned him and Renly's comeback were all lame.Sorry.

4 Making fun of Brienne and Shireen. At first I thought Renly was very generous with Brienne even though she was considered to be a freak. Loras tells Jaime that Renly thought she was grotesque.
And Renly was making fun of Shireen with Littlefinger because she had dragonscale.

[wyman's cook]

i'll hate him for you!

[The Drunkard]

I disliked Renly. He seemed like a bit of a bully.

[wyman's cook]

can't say i really remember every page, but i just remember to have thought of him as vain and arrogant..like that saying "he is copper, all shiny but useless" or something

there had to be a reason all that people liked him though..and it couldn't just be his looks..also, many would have known about his affair with Loras and still followed him..So i don't know, he must have had some really positive aspects too..i just don't remember em

[SerBarristan]

Unlike what many here (I think), TV Renly is more sympathetic than book Renly, except it'd be good if TV Renly still had some of the bravado of his literary counterpart.

Book Renly is kind of a dick imo.

[Grip]

Well atleast he was charismatic and managed to bind many lords to his cause, this might not make him any more likeable though. I think he was more dangerous than people give him credit for, Tyrion says something similar about his slow progress towards KL flaunting his power and abiding his time. And didnt he also credit Brienne as one of the few who would die for him without demanding rewards such as lands or money, that she would fight for him solely out of love for him?

Edited by Grip, 21 March 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Awesome Oberyn Martell]

So Loras said Renly thought Brienne was grotesque, so what? Brienne was grotesque, Renly let her join the Rainbow Guard because he recognised she was suitable for the role despite the fact she was a woman. He was fairly shrewd, marrying Margaery to get the alliance of Highgarden. I like Renly, he's a bit of a douche but compared to the others he comes off very well.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

Awesome Oberyn Martell, on 21 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

So Loras said Renly thought Brienne was grotesque, so what? Brienne was grotesque, Renly let her join the Rainbow Guard because he recognised she was suitable for the role despite the fact she was a woman. He was fairly shrewd, marrying Margaery to get the alliance of Highgarden. I like Renly, he's a bit of a douche but compared to the others he comes off very well.

Whats so shrewd in that? Any sane man would like to get Highgarden's alliance.  Before that he was planning to set Cersei aside and wed Robert to Margaery. One thing I have learned after reading the books is making enemies with Tywin Lannister is the least shrewd thing you could do.

[JKeats]

Ultimately, Renly is not a major enough figure to inspire a lot of hate.

Personally I dislike the guy, but he was out of the story early enough that I give him a pass.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

I don't like Renly.  He was witty and personable and seemed like a nice guy, but his ambition and his actions were foolish.  They caused a lot of bloodshed and cost a lot of lives (his own included).  There's a lot of treachery and betrayl in this series, but Renly betrayed his own brother and attempted to take his crown.  That's pretty low.

Edited by Ser Ilyn's Tongue, 21 March 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[Winter's Lady]

The reason people don't hate Renly is of course the Peach! What else...

On a serious note, in my eyes he was too minor to evoke any strong feelings one way or the other.

[mormont]

I'll play devil's advocate for a bit...

In regard to claiming the throne, consider Renly's position. He was, probably rightly, in fear for his own safety and his own future if Cersei took the throne. There's every chance she'd have arranged an 'accident' for him, or at least tried to disgrace and discredit him. She didn't like him, and she didn't want any rival powers around.

He was also right that pretty much nobody wanted Stannis to be king. Moreover, being ignorant of Joff's parentage and (crucially) of the fact that Stannis knew about that, he would naturally have assumed that Stannis was unlikely even to attempt a claim. (It surprises him when he finds out.) And he was also correct that by all rational analysis, Stannis shouldn't have had a chance of succeeding even if he did try for the throne. Stannis wasn't going to save him from Cersei.

As for Joff, he'd tried to install Joff as king already - without Cersei's power. That was his Plan A: being king himself was never his first choice (I know the TV series goes in a different direction here, but this is the book forum). That was a blowout thanks to Ned.

So what is Renly to do? Sit back and wait for Cersei to do her worst? Try to persuade Stannis to rebel against his nephew for his brother's sake, pray that he could somehow beat the Lannisters, and hope King Stannis took an enlightened view on Renly's sexual preferences and lifestyle? Not very attractive options personally - and although he tends not to make a big deal of it, it's clear Renly doesn't consider either of these options to be very good for the realm, either. He genuinely thinks that both Joff and Stannis will make dreadful kings and will ruin the realm, and this appears to be a significant consideration for him.

So I can certainly defend that decision. It makes sense, if what you're dealing with is the right outcomes rather than the right processes.

[Ihab]

I lol'd when Renly died.

[Noimporta]

I don't hate him because he's too minor to hate. But I am a bit surprised as to how many people love him, he has five lines in two books (only one of which is really good) and not a lot of character besides "Robert 2: Electric Boogaloo". The TV series version is far more likable because he show genuine concern for the realm's well being and truly believes he can help it by being King. For all the talk about how book!Renly was the same in that respect, there's plenty of signs he was just in it for the power, and maybe because he really look good with a crown.

[TheStarvedMan]

He was pretty annoying.I was glad to see him polished off.

[Buckwheat]

Quote

Ultimately, Renly is not a major enough figure to inspire a lot of hate.

Personally I dislike the guy, but he was out of the story early enough that I give him a pass.

This, basically. He is not overtly cruel, does not have boring travelogue chapters, is not a young girl and is funny when he appears. And dies before we could start hating him.

Quote

The reason people don't hate Renly is of course the Peach! What else...

On a serious note, in my eyes he was too minor to evoke any strong feelings one way or the other.

Lady! Always doing the best for the realm PEACH, are you?

[A Free Shadow]

Summer knights. He made people around him feel like it is always summer, there are things worth living for and things worth dying for. And I think it was his intention towards everybody, to give them some sort of spark. It was his natural capability as well.

I think he would have preffered if all that would have been done by smiles and roses, but, well...
He gives Brienne the job, even if he not particulary ikes her, he mocks Joffrey for being defeated by a girl when everyone else is silent. So his radar is quite allright. And he does things not out of spite or hate at least. And he does not cheat. I can not imagine him sending a shadow baby after his brother.

[Arkash]

I do not hate him, he had good intentions, was a good man, but was naive and silly, childish is some ways, that is all.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

A Free Shadow, on 21 March 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

  And he does not cheat. I can not imagine him sending a shadow baby after his brother.

He was cheating on his wife and also he was trying to steal his brother's crown.

mormont, on 21 March 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

I'll play devil's advocate for a bit... In regard to claiming the throne, consider Renly's position. He was, probably rightly, in fear for his own safety and his own future if Cersei took the throne. There's every chance she'd have arranged an 'accident' for him, or at least tried to disgrace and discredit him. She didn't like him, and she didn't want any rival powers around. He was also right that pretty much nobody wanted Stannis to be king. Moreover, being ignorant of Joff's parentage and (crucially) of the fact that Stannis knew about that, he would naturally have assumed that Stannis was unlikely even to attempt a claim. (It surprises him when he finds out.) And he was also correct that by all rational analysis, Stannis shouldn't have had a chance of succeeding even if he did try for the throne. Stannis wasn't going to save him from Cersei. As for Joff, he'd tried to install Joff as king already - without Cersei's power. That was his Plan A: being king himself was never his first choice (I know the TV series goes in a different direction here, but this is the book forum). That was a blowout thanks to Ned. So what is Renly to do? Sit back and wait for Cersei to do her worst? Try to persuade Stannis to rebel against his nephew for his brother's sake, pray that he could somehow beat the Lannisters, and hope King Stannis took an enlightened view on Renly's sexual preferences and lifestyle? Not very attractive options personally - and although he tends not to make a big deal of it, it's clear Renly doesn't consider either of these options to be very good for the realm, either. He genuinely thinks that both Joff and Stannis will make dreadful kings and will ruin the realm, and this appears to be a significant consideration for him. So I can certainly defend that decision. It makes sense, if what you're dealing with is the right outcomes rather than the right processes.

But why didn't he leave his claim when Stannis declared himself the king. Renly had no reason to believe Stannis would make a 'dreadful' king. Stannis actually worked on the council and was one of the two people who did it geniunely to improve Robert's reign.

I agree that initially he did lay claim to save his life but what happened after Stannis declared himself to be the king.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

Arkash, on 21 March 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

I do not hate him, he had good intentions, was a good man, but was naive and silly, childish is some ways, that is all.

He was leading men to war for no good reason at all. Robb Stark lost his father, Stannis was the rightful king and Daenerys has a valid claim too.But Renly THOUGHT that he was a good king and 100,000 men had to die for him because he dressed well.