186 replies to this topic

[headly1994]

If your un-armed and someone hacks At you you will most likely put your forearm out defensively leading to severed hands.

[J. Stargaryen]

J. Stargaryen, on 07 February 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

In what way does that contradict what I said?

@ FFR,

I was sort of hoping to get a response to this question.

[Frey family reunion]

J. Stargaryen, on 08 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

@ FFR,

I was sort of hoping to get a response to this question.

I guess my point is that I don't think the Red Wedding is a climax in the war of the five (or four) kings.It certainly did halt the Northern presence in the South, and it dealt a pretty big blow to House Stark (which was already reeling at the time), but Stannis is still contesting his claim.  The Greyjoys are continuing their attempt at conquest, in fact their plans have grown bolder.  I think the Dornes are about to enter the Frey, and I think House Tyrell may attempt to wrest power from House Lannister.

This vision was shown to Dany who is not invested in the events of the Red Wedding.  She has enmity to both House Lannister and House Stark.  I really think this vision has more to do with a future contact between her and Jon Snow.  As someone above (or in another post) noted "looked at her in mute appeal" could be a reference to Ghost and the idea of a dead half wolf half man could certainly fit the bill if Jon slipped into Ghost's skin before his body "died".

The lamb sceptre is more difficult, but I'm coming around to a theory that the ancient Valyrians used the blood of the Lhazareen (the lamb men) as a sacrifice to allow them to be bound with their dragons. I also think that the Lhazareens may be descended from the First Men before they left for Westeros.  If so, then the sceptre may represent that Jon is the king of a people that Dany has only known as the "lamb men".  But I'll admit this theory is still in the crackpot stage.

Edited by Frey family reunion, 10 March 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[J. Stargaryen]

Frey family reunion, on 10 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

I guess my point is that I don't think the Red Wedding is a climax in the war of the five (or four) kings.It certainly did halt the Northern presence in the South, and it dealt a pretty big blow to House Stark (which was already reeling at the time), but Stannis is still contesting his claim.  The Greyjoys are continuing their attempt at conquest, in fact their plans have grown bolder.  I think the Dornes are about to enter the Frey, and I think House Tyrell may attempt to wrest power from House Lannister.

This vision was shown to Dany who is not invested in the events of the Red Wedding.  She has enmity to both House Lannister and House Stark.  I really think this vision has more to do with a future contact between her and Jon Snow.  As someone above (or in another post) noted "looked at her in mute appeal" could be a reference to Ghost and the idea of a dead half wolf half man could certainly fit the bill if Jon slipped into Ghost's skin before his body "died".

The lamb sceptre is more difficult, but I'm coming around to a theory that the ancient Valyrians used the blood of the Lhazareen (the lamb men) as a sacrifice to allow them to be bound with their dragons. I also think that the Lhazareens may be descended from the First Men before they left for Westeros.  If so, then the sceptre may represent that Jon is the king of a people that Dany has only known as the "lamb men".  But I'll admit this theory is still in the crackpot stage.

Truthfully, the Battle of the Blackwater might have been the in-universe climax of the WotFK. For us though, the climax was the RW.

WRT to the vision, it's possible that it also foretells something more Dany-related than the RW, but there's just no reasonable way to rule the RW out of the vision: the wolf-headed king - Robb; the lamb scepter - Wendel Manderly; "mute appeal" - Jinglebell.

Maybe there are two interpretations: one for the audience and one in-universe explanation, along the lines of what you and others are suggesting. However, I strongly oppose the exclusion of the audience interpretation for the above mentioned reasons.

[winterstood]

The HotU vision shows the aftermath of the red wedding. Remember the freys made a DISPLAY of Rob!

They sewed Grey Wind's head on his decapitated body and the HotU vision gives us the rest of the picture - they sewed a lamb's leg as a king's sceptre on his hand as mockery - etc. and set them all up at a big table where everyone could laugh at them. Sickening.

[Champion of R'hllor]

Queen Beyond the Wall, on 24 March 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Anyhow, I think there is a distinct possibility that this vision is Bran and not the Red Wedding.

Bran is a boy. Dany wouldn't mistake a boy for a King. Sorry. Not buying it.

[StarkDragon]

Hmm, not gonna pretend I'm the best at prophecy but here goes;

Iron Crown - for an Iron Throne?
Silent Wolf King - 'Silent' screams Ghost or Bran to me.
Sees Danny even though he's dead - I agree this screams greenseer
Mute Appeal to Danny - Foreshadowing Stark v Danny?
Holds a Lamb Scepter - Hmmmm, this could be alot of things. Here's my guess, he rules with being 'passed on' the legacy of Robb, who'd been a lamb sent to slaughter. Meaning his goals are very vengeful.
Feast of Roast Fowl - A definate difference for food, but short of being food, I see not much to it.
Hacked off Hands - This speaks Rickon, on the Cannibal island, imo. However, this somehow makes me think about Starfish soup. Feast, hacked off hands... hmm.
Wolf presides over it - Again, a mention that this will be Stark initiated and ruled.

So my best guess is, if this did not predict the Red Wedding, this foreshadows a vengeful silent successor to Rob who will be very against Danny's ambitions.

They could be against Dany ambitions because of Stannis. If he is an ally, because of perhaps Jon, then that would have reason to be against Danny, wheras otherwise I can't imagine Starks having a reason to dislike her, short of if she supports the Freys. (Not likely to occur)
I can't help myself, Patchface says:

Quote

Under the sea mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs

Isn't there a family allied to the Manderlies, who's sigils are crabs? I'll have to look it up...
but I've heard others suggest a starfish looks similar to a hand, and 'soup' suggests a feast. A feast with hacked off hands?

tldr;
A silent Wolf King (likely John I suppose), with mute appeal to Danny (because of their alliance with Stannis) while watching her from beyond the grave (greenseers are theorized to get better with more pain, near death would be a power up), with a lamb scepter (being passed on kingship from a 'slaughtered lamb'),  


I think the most important part for pointing out how it's NOT the Red Wedding, is that the Wolf King looks directly, and follows, at Danny with 'mute appeal'. Why would Robb feel anything about a Targareon he never met?

Edited by StarkDragon, 05 April 2013 - 12:26 AM.