275 replies to this topic

[Jon AS]

psychogobstopper, on 26 March 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Also makes one wonder why Ambassador Dominic Osoba was only in the game to have you search for his son.  In a situation where Arcturus Station has been destroyed, the Alliance Parliament is lost, and Earth is under Reaper occupation*, shouldn't the human Ambassador have been portrayed as actually doing something?

(* I sure as hell would've expected him to step up after Udina's death, at the very least!)

IIRC there's an announcement that all requests meant for the human embassy are rerouted to the asari after the coup attempt, but that just makes things weirder.

Werthead, on 26 March 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Tried to talk about the ending to ME3 in a manner acceptable to the layman. Think I failed. It got a bit long and rambly and then it was 3am. Still, worth a shot and I think I covered most of the bases.

Overall that's a very detailed and I think relatively easy to follow explanation. I'd say the time mostly shows in the typos.

I'd have added the themes of self-determination and diversity to the things the ending trashes, since one gets a kicking with Control and both are tossed out the window for the supposedly "best" solution, Synthesis, and also mentioned that it goes both against gameplay and Shepard's characterisation as established over three games to not ask a single question or trying to find a different solution to the ones presented, but I think the general gist of what is wrong with the ending comes across.

The Dark Energy plot outlined by Karpyshyn sounds kinda stupid (humans aren't really all that diverse, genetically speaking...but then, genetics and evolution aren't something that the writers seem to have a firm grasp on anyway) and it certainly goes just as much against Sovereign's claim that the Reapers are beyond human understanding as the ending we got does. At first glance it actually looks as if the stupid "Let's make a deal" sequence has its origin there, in fact.

[haLobEnder]

Reading Wert's article right now. One thing I'm still confused about is the fate of those on the Citadel. I mean, obviously the Citadel blows up in the end, so it's almost a moot point, but were the dead bodies Shepard encountered in the final sequence of the game supposed to be every human and alien on board the Citadel?
I was under the impression they were either people who went missing over the years (vent rats and the like) or people abducted from Earth itself. Weren't all the bodies human?

Edited by halO bendeR, 27 March 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Jon AS]

halO bendeR, on 27 March 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

I was under the impression they were either people who went missing over the years (vent rats and the like) or people abducted from Earth itself. Weren't all the bodies human?

I thought they were from Earth, too. That was the whole point of the beam after all. Though why there are no Reaper minions (except for a couple of Keepers) at the Citadel end to process the new arrivals is anyone's guess.

[viniS]

halO bendeR, on 27 March 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Reading Wert's article right now. One thing I'm still confused about is the fate of those on the Citadel. I mean, obviously the Citadel blows up in the end, so it's almost a moot point, but were the dead bodies Shepard encountered in the final sequence of the game supposed to be every human and alien on board the Citadel?
I was under the impression they were either people who went missing over the years (vent rats and the like) or people abducted from Earth itself. Weren't all the bodies human?

When the artists drew up that part for storyboards, all of the bodies were supposed to be Cerberus troops. They were supposed to be the last of the Illusive Man's troops (all killed), and demonstrate just how far he was willing to go to take control. It's actually a lot cooler in the original storyboad rendering.

[Jon AS]

Sivin, on 27 March 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

When the artists drew up that part for storyboards, all of the bodies were supposed to be Cerberus troops. They were supposed to be the last of the Illusive Man's troops (all killed), and demonstrate just how far he was willing to go to take control. It's actually a lot cooler in the original storyboad rendering.

The drawing in the artbook shows the scene as the aftermath of Shepard fighting all those Cerberus troopers, I think. That was then to be followed up by a classic boss fight against TIM.

[HP Loveshaft]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

The drawing in the artbook shows the scene as the aftermath of Shepard fighting all those Cerberus troopers, I think. That was then to be followed up by a classic boss fight against TIM.

TIM fused with a reaper. It's a pretty neat visual in the art book.

[Jon AS]

HP Loveshaft, on 27 March 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

TIM fused with a reaper. It's a pretty neat visual in the art book.

I think it looks stupid and Bioware made the right call in not making that a physical confrontation. It might be one of two things they got right in the ending (the other one being the final exchange with Anderson).

This is a pretty funny, completely inoffensive way to let Bioware know that you really didn't care for the ending. That Forbes keeps following this so closely is still cracking me up, and I really hope they get that interview with someone at Bioware they're angling for, I think that has the potential to be interesting.

And since it's great for procrastination, another long article about why the ending sucked, this one using The Lord of the Rings as an analogy to explain it to people who haven't played the games.
Also has some sensible things to say about the "artistic integrity" some people (including Ray Muzyka) brought up.

[Zadok]

I've found something worse than the actual ending of the game, fucking marauder shields on insanity.  I actually forgot about this part and thought I was home free after making it through the whole mission without dying, now I'm sitting here for an hour trying to hit 10 consecutive head shots on this cunt with an awful gun with awful aim and Shepard swaying.  Fuck you Bioware.

[Fez]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I think it looks stupid and Bioware made the right call in not making that a physical confrontation. It might be one of two things they got right in the ending (the other one being the final exchange with Anderson).

They didn't even really get the Anderson bit right though since as powerful as it was; the dialogue that they cut was even better. Far and away the best voice acting in the game, and I thought Jennifer Hale and Keith David were great throughout. (I don't have sound on my work computer so I don't know if this is the right link, but I think it is) I really wish they'd kept it in as well.

Actually on second thought, I don't. It would make what comes after even worse.

I do agree that there was no need for a TIM boss fight.  A Harbringer boss fight however would've been epic (though not sure how they'd have done it without it looking like one of those JRPG final boss fights where the camera has too zoom so far out that you can barely see your character)

[Werthead]

Quote

One thing I'm still confused about is the fate of those on the Citadel.

One of the writers was asked this on Twitter and IIRC he said most of the population would have been killed, though given the size of the station probably a number of people managed to hide. Presumably they survive on Control (where the Citadel survives) and can be rescued afterwards.

What is hilarious - and I think a lot of people miss - is that the animated texture for the arms on the Citadel has lights moving around to simulate cars and air vehicles moving around. They didn't both changing it for the final confrontation. So during the whole Shepard/Illusive Man/Anderson/starchild showdowns, I find it impossible to ignore the fact that the people on the Citadel seem to be carrying on life totally as normal in the background

Quote

I mean, obviously the Citadel blows up in the end

This isn't as clear-cut as people say. In both Synthesis and Destroy, the Citadel is wracked with explosions and the Crucible seems to blow up (there's a big blast from the central ring). At least two of the arms also seem to separate from the station. However, the scene fades out before anything else happens. We don't see the Crucible unambiguously blow up or plummet to Earth. It's possible most of it survived. Depending on the force of the separating explosions, the detached arms might even remain in orbit (or at least stay aloft long enough for the orbiting fleet to move them to a higher orbit).

Quote

Were the dead bodies Shepard encountered in the final sequence of the game supposed to be every human and alien on board the Citadel?

No, as said before these seem to have been humans brought up from Earth. Anderson and Shepard assume they were going to be processed into another human Reaper, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

Mass Effect 3 missed opportunity #3621: Meeting up with Bailey on the post-devastated Citadel to find that he's lost an eye but become more badass than ever and single-handedly leading a successful resistance effort against the Reapers

[viniS]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I think it looks stupid and Bioware made the right call in not making that a physical confrontation. It might be one of two things they got right in the ending (the other one being the final exchange with Anderson).

This is a pretty funny, completely inoffensive way to let Bioware know that you really didn't care for the ending. That Forbes keeps following this so closely is still cracking me up, and I really hope they get that interview with someone at Bioware they're angling for, I think that has the potential to be interesting.

And since it's great for procrastination, another long article about why the ending sucked, this one using The Lord of the Rings as an analogy to explain it to people who haven't played the games.
Also has some sensible things to say about the "artistic integrity" some people (including Ray Muzyka) brought up.

[Shaun Snow]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4H_A7SeawU4

I liked this guy's take on the ending. Also, his Garrus impersonation is uncannily accurate.

[Jon AS]

Zadok, on 27 March 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I've found something worse than the actual ending of the game, fucking marauder shields on insanity.  I actually forgot about this part and thought I was home free after making it through the whole mission without dying, now I'm sitting here for an hour trying to hit 10 consecutive head shots on this cunt with an awful gun with awful aim and Shepard swaying.  Fuck you Bioware.

Ah, he killed me the first time, too. But seriously, you can't be that bad of a shot if you made through on Insanity until there.

You might also consider that it's not really worth it to keep playing past that point.

Fez, on 27 March 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

They didn't even really get the Anderson bit right though since as powerful as it was; the dialogue that they cut was even better. Far and away the best voice acting in the game, and I thought Jennifer Hale and Keith David were great throughout. (I don't have sound on my work computer so I don't know if this is the right link, but I think it is) I really wish they'd kept it in as well.

Personally I think that goes on for too long and thus goes from touching to overwrought and corny.

Werthead, on 27 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

What is hilarious - and I think a lot of people miss - is that the animated texture for the arms on the Citadel has lights moving around to simulate cars and air vehicles moving around. They didn't both changing it for the final confrontation. So during the whole Shepard/Illusive Man/Anderson/starchild showdowns, I find it impossible to ignore the fact that the people on the Citadel seem to be carrying on life totally as normal in the background

Yeah, I noticed that. There is quite a bit of reused artwork in that area (including from LOTSB).

Werthead, on 27 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Mass Effect 3 missed opportunity #3621: Meeting up with Bailey on the post-devastated Citadel to find that he's lost an eye but become more badass than ever and single-handedly leading a successful resistance effort against the Reapers

Would he have had time to train suicide bombers, though?

[haLobEnder]

Werthead, on 27 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

No, as said before these seem to have been humans brought up from Earth. Anderson and Shepard assume they were going to be processed into another human Reaper, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

I guess I misread that part of your article. I thought that was your interpretation of the dead bodies on the Citadel which is why I brought it up for clarification.


Anyone know what happened to the Consort? I recall her being mentioned in ME2 as being involved in some scandal that might force her from the Citadel but was there any mention of her in ME3?

[viniS]

An interesting take on ME3's ending from my favorite Videogame ranter. Enjoy.

[Zadok]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Ah, he killed me the first time, too. But seriously, you can't be that bad of a shot if you made through on Insanity until there.

You might also consider that it's not really worth it to keep playing past that point.

I fired the gun more times attempting that than I did the whole rest of the game, biotic explosions are pretty ridiculous.  To make it even more awesome though the first time I killed him my game froze upon entering the beam so I had to do it again.  Seemed like more luck than anything, the 2 times I downed him I lined up a headshot and the reticule didn't really move much and I was able to just keep pumping the shots, other times it would pitch wildly after shots basically making it impossible to down him before he got his shot off.

[Jon AS]

Zadok, on 27 March 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I fired the gun more times attempting that than I did the whole rest of the game, biotic explosions are pretty ridiculous.

That's true, particularly the Warp + Throw combo. I think the upgrades to explosion force and damage stack in that case.

[Poobah]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

And since it's great for procrastination, another long article about why the ending sucked, this one using The Lord of the Rings as an analogy to explain it to people who haven't played the games.
Also has some sensible things to say about the "artistic integrity" some people (including Ray Muzyka) brought up.

Really nailed it. Especially:

Quote

Dear writers: If you create something, and your readers hope that what you just gave them was, in reality, an “it was a dream all along” ending, because that would be better than what you wrote, you seriously. fucked. up.

and

Quote

There’s a recurring tune being played by Bioware in response to this outcry, and it goes something like this: “We might respond to these complaints, and we might flesh out the ending we presented, but we’re not going to change anything, because this is art — this is the product of artists — and as such it is inviolate and immutable in the face of outside forces.”
Which is, speaking as a working artist, complete and utter horseshit.
If you make a movie, and you put in front of focus groups, and they categorically hate the ending, you change it. If you’re writing a book and your first readers tell you the ending is terrible, you fix it. (Ditto your second readers, your second-draft readers, your agent, your editor, your copy editor.)

[viniS]

Zadok, on 27 March 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I fired the gun more times attempting that than I did the whole rest of the game, biotic explosions are pretty ridiculous.  To make it even more awesome though the first time I killed him my game froze upon entering the beam so I had to do it again.  Seemed like more luck than anything, the 2 times I downed him I lined up a headshot and the reticule didn't really move much and I was able to just keep pumping the shots, other times it would pitch wildly after shots basically making it impossible to down him before he got his shot off.

I used the pistol in the first "level", and the last "level".

[Merentha]

Jon AS, on 27 March 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

That's true, particularly the Warp + Throw combo. I think the upgrades to explosion force and damage stack in that case.

They do.  Biotic explosions and Decoy shenanigans are pretty much the only way to get through Gold in the multiplayer.