299 replies to this topic

[Ser Lany Cassandra]

seeyouintee, on 07 April 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I watched the first episode with a few people that haven't read the books and the only parts that were unclear to them were exactly who Melissandre was and the significance of what was happening during the whole idol-burning scene. It was a little abrupt and disjointed. Throughout the first season, I was never sure which parts I was going to have to explain because of the pacing and how much they had to cut from the book story, but the people I've watched it with seem to be following fine.

Pretty much the same thing.  My husband, son and ex-husband (non-book readers) all have been able to follow along with very little explaining.

[Lannister Accountant]

This episode gets a solid 8 from me.  It doesn't quite break into the 9 territory because a) despite having so much to cover, the powers that be thought...Ros should have more screen time?  Really?   Cressen.  Oh Cressen.  His entire character is abbreviated and death seems so pointless.  There was so much more profound going on in ACOK for him and having recently listened to the audio book and appreciated the character, the way he's so unceremoniously retired here rubbed me the wrong way. c) Is it my imagination or does Robb seem a little too confident?  He's angry and rightfully so, but in Season 1, despite being determined, he had more perspective.

Now while a lot of this has been echoed here, the good well outweighed the bad.  The transitions (and use of the red comet) was a good call.  Peter Dinklage continues to be the absolute best thing about the show, although his King's Landing co-stars have brought their A games as well.  I am very impressed with the sheer amount of material for such a sprawling epic, it was well handled.  I have already watched this episode three times and it holds up.  I remain primed for the season.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Relic, on 07 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Anyway, that isn't why I disliked it. One of the things i love about GRRM is how subtle he is, how you have to be really paying attention to catch all the intricacies.  This show is about as subtle as a hammer to the face. It beats you over the head constantly, utilizing spotty dialogue in the name of exposition.

Please do bear in mind that although it’s the same tale, this is both a different medium and also a different audience. Subtlety doesn’t work on mass-market productions half of whose targets are by definition below average in attention span, intelligence, and clue. Books can be for smart people, or clever ones, but mega-million mass-market TV blockbusters just are not, and can never be, or they shall fail.

Probably you were one of those kids who didn’t have to hear the lesson repeated five times before he had a clue what it was really about.  Perhaps you were even one of those who didn’t need to spend the first six weeks after summer break being retaught all the stuff all the rest of the kids had forgotten over the summer all because they never paid much attention in the first place.

TV audiences aren’t like you. Or rather, most of them aren’t. If subtlety causes the majority of the audience to miss what’s really going on, then you have lost them.  And if you have lost the “differently clued” majority, you have lost the show.

Exposition is another inevitable price of the change in medium. In a book, complex situations can be explained in detail, sometimes by simple description and sometimes from the point of view of the inside of someone’s own head, but all of them using words. But when you get to a show without a narrator or voiceovers, those words are all gone. You have to put them back, somehow. Exposition is the only way open to it in this medium. Shakespeare used soliloquies, but today’s audience expects such things as at least a mostly one-sided dialogue instead.

And so you get exposition.  That part is inevitable.

What is not inevitable is the banality of said dialogue. The exchanges between Cersei and Tyrion are some of the very best stuff the show has to offer, and much of it is purely the invention of the screenwriters. It doesn’t even feel exposition, although in a way it certainly is. The dialogue between Varys and Tyrion is also excellent, but this time it’s mostly taken straight out of the book.

Ros, Littlefinger... well, that’s all something else, and although I do agree with you there, I imagine others feel differently.

You have to recognize that a different medium has different constraints, especially given the different target audience.

[Maceless Fan]

6/10. This is my first post. I saw season 1 and then read all the books so this is the first episode I've seen where I know what's going to happen and I think that has a lot to do with why I didn't enjoy it as much as Season 1. I'll give it a go though. There are still a hell of a lot of elements I do like, ie. the great acting from Tyrion, Joffery, Cersei, etc...

The whore bits are so tediously dull. Who actually cares? Don't like that Stannis is played by DI Burton from The Parole Officer. Makes it hard to take him seriously. I'll watch it again before episode 2. It might improve with a repeat viewing.

[Maceless Fan]

6/10. This is my first post. I saw season 1 and then read all the books so this is the first episode I've seen where I know what's going to happen and I think that has a lot to do with why I didn't enjoy it as much as Season 1. I'll give it a go though. There are still a hell of a lot of elements I do like, ie. the great acting from Tyrion, Joffery, Cersei, etc...

The whore bits are so tediously dull. Who actually cares? Don't like that Stannis is played by DI Burton from The Parole Officer. Makes it hard to take him seriously. I'll watch it again before episode 2. It might improve with a repeat viewing.

[Red Raven]

Quote

TV audiences aren’t like you. Or rather, most of them aren’t. If subtlety causes the majority of the audience to miss what’s really going on, then you have lost them. And if you have lost the “differently clued” majority, you have lost the show.

Then let them watch Jersey Shore, there's no shortage of stupid television out there.

There should be at least a few shows out there where the audience has to rise up to the material and do some of the work themselves and GoT would have been the perfect show for that.  It was a shame when they dumbed down Dexter, it would be a greater shame to dumb down GoT and the hamfisted Cersei/Petyr scene was a step in the dumb direction.

[Mad Queen]

CrypticWeirwood, on 08 April 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Subtlety doesn’t work on mass-market productions half of whose targets are by definition below average median in attention span, intelligence, and clue.

Statistics pet peeve, sorry.
The episode gets a 7 from me. It was your average GoT episode and I agree with most negative comments in this thread. One of my own: the conversation between Robb and Jaime was utterly useless. Why would Robb go and talk to his prisoner about his plans if said prisoner has no role to play in them? Scene added to give Jaime the required screen time, no doubt about it. Unless the point was to show what a beast Grey Wind has become.

[Dark Rider]

Viewing it in terms of a television show I think it was a 10 out of 10.  I think they did a brillant job introducing the primary storylines.  The view of Dubrovnik was amazing.  They were right in the previews the scenes are so impressive they almost look CGI only better. Well done.

[Vic-tarion Rattlehead]

Sadly, for me it was a big disappointment - cast-vice and also script-vice. I've gave this episode 5 out of 10, and I will gladly explain why.
First of all I have a big confession to make - I'm a HUGE fan of the first season and I was anticipating eagerly the coming of a second one. Yesterday morning I'd just bought the complete first season DVD at a local retailer store, and I was soooo exited to witness what have they done out of the brand new one... And then it all came crumbling down on me.
I'll just break it down:

• Melisandre - maybe she (Carice van Houten) is acting reliably, according to a character, but that not how she supposed to look - she should be taller (not as Brienne or Gregor, but still she is not impressive enough) and more voluptuous (blame GRRM, not me).
  
• Stannis - while he is acting good (looking so anxious about his precious righteousness), he is not looking at all as he supposed to look - bold man with a beard cropped so short, that it looks painted on his face.
  
• Davos - now to make Davos Seaworth to look remarkable is a hard task for any artist (he is supposed to be looking VERY average), so for this character, the most important task will be actors performance to be trustworthy, and meanwhile, the acting is plane indifferent.
  
• Craster - we have here the same problem as with Yoren casting from a previous season - they (the casting team) just seem to have a disability (or just not willing to) to present unkempt and ugly characters. Craster should be fatter, with a shaggy beard, stooped and gross. The actor that represents him, could as well be cast to play Mace Tyrell or Rendil Tarly - he doesn't seem at all like wildling. He does actually looks like a pervert that he is, when he is talking to/about his daughters (and that's a good achievement).

It can be remarked, that all of the points I highlighted above are abundance to actors interpretations and directors perception of the book/script, but for me - one of the important aspects in successfully turning a book in to a movie, is finding a suitable cast, that can reflect the characters reliably.

And now, to my second body of complaints:
ACOK is a great book - I like it even more than AGOT (the best one of all the ASOIAF until now, IMHO - is ASOS) and while the movie script is always open to writers innovations, they are not always do justice to the original story.

• What was this scene with Robb confronting Jamie in a cell is added for? To try and make Jamie look more human and vulnerable to the audience? IMO - it was utterly a waste of screen time (you want Jamie to show some fear? Wait till they'll make a season about ASOS - you'll have plenty of it). The direwolf actually doesn't help here at all - a pretty unreliable CG, not menacing at all.
  
• Why did they took the prologue out of its place and stuck in a middle of an episode? It made it look very jumpy and strange, to get introduction of completely new set of characters, in the middle of all of the familiar once.

All that I wrote here doesn't incline, that I'm not looking toward the second episode. Maybe my bad impression will fade away, the moment I'll glance what's coming further. I hope so, I really do.

Edited by Vic-tarion Rattlehead, 09 April 2012 - 04:11 AM.

[rmholt]

Zios, on 01 April 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

I would give it a 7(pollwise) but really a 7.5, which is pretty good in my book. I enjoyed many scenes including Robb/Jaime, LF/Cersei. Jack Gleeson does Joffrey's character justice which I'm happy about.  Looking forward to next ep.  

Joffrey's character and appearance is one of the best as transferred from the book

[rmholt]

redriver, on 07 April 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

I gave it an 8.The episode seemed to pass too quickly.

The sets looked fantastic,the acting excellent.It's a good start and I expect it to improve.

Looking forward to episede 2.

I watched it at least 3 times

[Relic]

CrypticWeirwood, on 08 April 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

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You have to recognize that a different medium has different constraints, especially given the different target audience.

I get what you are saying and i am aware that my expectations and demands are pretty high.

That said, good writing eliminates a lot of those constraints you mentioned, and is especially important when it comes to dialogue. Actors feed off the material they are presented and good writing can turn a previously mediocre actor into a surprise stud. It can also make her look like a wooden dumbass, and anywhere in between.

An example of well done exposition that serves to further character development, understanding of history, and sets up following scenes was suggested by a poster in a different thread. A conversation between Cressen and Shyreen explaining both Cressen's role in Stannis' court, his love for House Baratheon, and introducing the ominous Mel off screen to set up the pyre. It would take all of two minutes and could replace the brothel scene or the Petry/Cersei debacle.

Re: Robb/Jaime, it's a scene i would have LOVED to read in the books, i always wanted to see Robb go up against Jaime, but it didn't work for me on screen. Greywind was cool but it felt like they just needed to give Jaime face time and explained it away in a fashion that makes it seem like Robb doesn't trust Riverrun.

[White Raven]

9/10 One of the best episodes so far imho. I love the direwolves and old man Davos (I always pictured him younger)

[Relic]

White Raven, on 10 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

(I always pictured him younger)

Everyone IS younger in the books, haha.

[nightwisp]

8. Jack Gleeson is showing Joffrey in all his sadistic best, which is good! Killing Robert's children was so King Herod-like, and added to the hate-filled atmosphere that the Lannister's inspire. I wish they had started with Dragonstone right off, too, so watchers could get the characters there which had been led up to in the last season. I agree about Craster, he just was not portrayed as flithy(his environment)or perverted enough. Maybe that's coming.

[Ygrette]

Okay, it seems I am in the far minority here, but I gave this one a straight 10/10 and would do it again.

Yes, there have been changes from the book, but maybe that's exactly what had me hooked and nailed to the screen every second. It was like a director's cut of the book, we get to see the scenes we missed in the books, a different angle and finally a breathtaking visual aspect. I don't know if Ros was absolutely necessary, but she didn't bother me either. We just get to see MORE than we got in the books.

The wolves were breathtaking! The scenes with Daenerys were so full of tension, as opposed to the books where I found them a bit stretched and boring, to be honest. Melisandre! The totally unexpected Littlefinger scene! Now I do get the feeling that Littlefinger is being displayed a little too much as the James Bond villain, not as the multidimensional psychotic plotter as I always imagined him. But still, not enough to take away from the awesomeness.

Joffrey's acting was genius! I nearly peed myself in all of the Tyrion scenes, Peter Dinklage is a god.

I laughed, I cried, I shivered, I gasped, was disgusted, infuriated, amused and amazed. Really. That was awesome. And yes, I did read the books. I don't see the books and the show competing against each other, but as complementary. And as such, they build something wonderful together,

So yes, if I ever had a TV orgasm, that was it. Expecting multiple more to come. I'm probably easily entertained. Yay for being me, I had a blast! :-P

[HyacinthGirl]

Ygrette, on 26 April 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Okay, it seems I am in the far minority here, but I gave this one a straight 10/10 and would do it again. Yes, there have been changes from the book, but maybe that's exactly what had me hooked and nailed to the screen every second. It was like a director's cut of the book, we get to see the scenes we missed in the books, a different angle and finally a breathtaking visual aspect. I don't know if Ros was absolutely necessary, but she didn't bother me either. We just get to see MORE than we got in the books. The wolves were breathtaking! The scenes with Daenerys were so full of tension, as opposed to the books where I found them a bit stretched and boring, to be honest. Melisandre! The totally unexpected Littlefinger scene! Now I do get the feeling that Littlefinger is being displayed a little too much as the James Bond villain, not as the multidimensional psychotic plotter as I always imagined him. But still, not enough to take away from the awesomeness. Joffrey's acting was genius! I nearly peed myself in all of the Tyrion scenes, Peter Dinklage is a god. I laughed, I cried, I shivered, I gasped, was disgusted, infuriated, amused and amazed. Really. That was awesome. And yes, I did read the books. I don't see the books and the show competing against each other, but as complementary. And as such, they build something wonderful together, So yes, if I ever had a TV orgasm, that was it. Expecting multiple more to come. I'm probably easily entertained. Yay for being me, I had a blast! :-P

Oh, you're not alone. Maybe we're easy to please or whatever but so what. I have yet to see a Game of Thrones episode that wasn't 10/10 for me. Yeah, come at me, haters.

[BigThroner]

My first Fantacy novels/show. Im hooked. I have committed a sin by starting with book three But these season 2 episodes are great . Sopranos was finally topped .

[RhymesWithFreak]

Rated it a mild 7.

Pros:

Tyrion arriving in King's Landing
Tyrion and Cersei conversation
Killing of the bastards

Cons:

Littlefinger threatening Cersei
Ros in general
Jumped around too much
Nearly no Arya
Jon behaving like an idiot

[MouldyMuffin]

An 8. Overall, pretty good but not that powerful as an opening episode.