99 replies to this topic

[Lord Godric]

Lord Belmore, on 04 April 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

The scene was most shocking on my first watch of the episode, and even then, while I didn't like it, I attempted to moderate my response. Now, I still don't really like it in the context of Littlefinger's character, but I get what they're trying to do.

The more I think of it, the less I think it is out of character for show!Littlefinger.  Whereas Littlefinger in the books would never blatantly challenge Cersei like that, it fits with his character of not being afraid of anyone in the show.  He sparred with Varys in the throne room in season 1, which people said was out of character, he made a very blatant and public comment about Renly/Loras which people said was out of character.  Maybe this is just the character they've decided to give him in the show.  It's different from the books, but I am seeing a consistency with his interactions beginning to develop in the show.

[RoamingRonin]

A lot of what's in the Game of Thrones books is internal dialogue. Stuff like that will die on camera. Action is everything in film and TV. Besides, the show isn't a direct translation of the books. TV/Petyr might be a totally different character from Book/Petyr.

I wasn't bothered by the scene. I always enjoy watching Cersei flaunt her authority. And now there's established tension between Cersei and Littlefinger. It might not have been in line with the books but it fits the show. And as long as the show is consistent -- and good! -- I'm a happy fan.

[Brianne of Brooklyn]

Tywin, on 02 April 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

...more importantly, it's a commentary on the subject of power. It will obviously tie in thematically with the discussion Varys and Tyrion will have (as heard in a trailer). In that sense it works well.

i think overall this scene was to set up the theme of the season, the debate about whether knowledge is power or power is power. it's a theme that runs throughout the books as we see characters develop, change course and, at various points, have both physical and mental strength.

while i agree, it is was a bit uncharacteristic of LF (who, strangely enough, i actually enjoy in the books because i like seeing how his minds works and how his machinations play out. in the series, i love him if only because i'm a HUGE fan of 'the wire'), it showed that he's not merely a mustache-twirling villain, that there is something human under there whose buttons can be pushed.

after reading the rest of the series, i felt that this was totally in line with Cersei, especially after AFFC. she wields "her power" left and right, without realizing how fleeting it truly is.

[Mini-mitch]

Was it just me or is does Littlefinger sound different than he did in the first season?

[MegasAV]

The scene was just all wrong, I understand that series LF is somewhat reckless, having him reveal the backstory of the hound to Sansa, and obviously even book LF makes a huge gamble pinning the Valyrian blade on Tyrion, as that very much could have blown up in his face as well.  But in season 1 during the Ros scene LF explicitly states that forcefully exerting power is their "game" and he couldn't win by playing their game, so wny would he throw out that snarky remark to Cersei like that, a complete contradicition in my eyes at least.

[int11]

Mini-mitch, on 05 April 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Was it just me or is does Littlefinger sound different than he did in the first season?

Yes, he had a cold and the fever made him slip. He'll be fit for fight next episode and won't make such mistakes again.

[Jojen]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but they may have been trying to set up a parallel scene with the one between Robb and Jaime. Robb basically pulls a Cersei when he uses Grey Wind to intimidate Jaime, but the reality is, Jaime held the power in that scene, it just isn't immediately apparent.

[DannySpud]

My gut reaction to that scene was that the producers were saying "you might have read the books now, but we can still surprise you".

And after thinking about it for a bit I don't think Littlefinger was to blame, Cersei was looking for a fight. LF was walking in the other direction when C caught up to him with a group of guards, she doesn't usually walk around with a group of guards following her. Yes she goaded him, but he was probably being a bit defensive faced with a group of guards and was trying to make it clear to her that he had just as much power as she did and that because her and Jamie were practically public knowledge now she had less power than she used to. She tried to show him otherwise. It works within the context of the characters IMO, and if there is a fault with the scene it lies with Cersei acting out of character, not LF.

[flyingwind66]

I didn't like it... littlefinger's smarter than that.  It's definitely something Cercei would do but having littlefinger be on the receiving end made me cringe.

[Francois Clegane]

I don't think it's totally out of charcter for littlefinger. I've only read as far as A Storm of Swords, but even then it's obvious how much of a, "Sly dog", Littlefinger is. We've seen him betray Ned Stark already, maybe the scene was to show it doesen't matter whose side you're on, Littlefinger is there to play the Game of Thrones, hence the, "Verbal sparring", with Cersei

[Klye Condon]

noone seems to have picked up on the fact that despite the fact that cersei boldly proclaims that "power is power" and coolly appears to brutally get the upperhand of littlefinger she actually doesn,t.She can threaten littlefinger but she actually can,t kill him because she needs him and his network of contacts ultimately proving his point -knowledge IS power

[Envie]

Klye Condon, on 06 April 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

noone seems to have picked up on the fact that despite the fact that cersei boldly proclaims that "power is power" and coolly appears to brutally get the upperhand of littlefinger she actually doesn,t.She can threaten littlefinger but she actually can,t kill him because she needs him and his network of contacts ultimately proving his point -knowledge IS power

That's also a good way of looking at it. At the end of her little display, she has to again ask him (with please) to find Arya Stark - so its obvious he is still quite important. Another thing few people realize that I tried to point out is that this was yet another way of showing how desperate and out of control Cersei is starting to get. Now that she knows how powerful Joffrey is getting, she's getting a little nutty in the head. This stuff is explained in great detail in the book, but for viewers, there's only dramatic scenes to convey the tension. This scene really did help put everything in perspective.

[HyacinthGirl]

I don't know, I really liked this scene. It reminds the audience that LF is very much around, that he is witty and that his weapon is knowledge. It also shows us that Cersei completely underestimates him. It would never have worked in the books, but I liked it.

[R'hllor-Is-The-Truth]

_Oberyn_, on 02 April 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

It did not bother me that much except for the guard drilling wich was a very weak way to make a point about power.

Joffrey scene seemed a bit off though, he's too insecure to threaten Cersei. If he can do that what is he going to do when Tyrion kicks the shit out of him/

I think Tyrion is under the protection of Tywin Lannister and everybody from Kingsguard to the small folk know who Tywin is and what he is capable of. So i don't think Tyrion is in any danger. I think the scene between Cersei and Joffery is best scene in the episode. I hate Cersei so much, even though they are clearly trying to make her more sympathetic. All i could think of during that scene was another scene when Cersei told Joffery to fuck painted whores or noble virgins. Thats what you Cersei for raising such a person.

[Envie]

R, on 07 April 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

I hate Cersei so much, even though they are clearly trying to make her more sympathetic. All i could think of during that scene was another scene when Cersei told Joffery to fuck painted whores or noble virgins. Thats what you Cersei for raising such a person.

Ahh but don't forget - what's another reason Joffrey has such a horribly low opinion of women? Not his Mother entirely but also his supposed "Father" the esteemed Robert Baratheon! Joffrey has spent his entire life watching Robert whore and drink himself to death as well as mistreating Cersei (not that she didn't deserve it). Don't pin all the parental blame on Cersei. Joffrey's a monster because of the shitty way his parents have both coddled and ignored him.

I love Joffrey's character and also the actor playing him... very powerful reminders of what can happen when a teenager comes to power with an entitlement attitude. This isn't really that far of a stretch from what happens to many modern day teens, sans the ability to behead people haha!

[birdsong66]

I didn't really mind the scene as a whole.  That said, I did think it served two purposes:

FIRST:  Left the viewer/reader still wondering if Catelyn  remains an open wound for LF, or if it's yet another tool in his arsenal of misdirection.
SECOND:  Confirmed that Cercei's idea/understanding of "POWER" is superficial, rather too immediate, and she herself is not skilled enough at the game to secure a position of power beyond something best described as fleeting.

Two different methods of obtaining and harnessing power, shown as mirror images on HBO.  Rather well done, in that regard.

**WILD SPECULATION**

If LF is in Renley's camp (not in the novels) and Catelyn is headed to Renley(true to novel), would D&D be so bold as to actually have LF escort Ned's bones as a reason for them both to meet up face to face?  I mean, would they deviate that dramatically?  Thoughts?

[Skeksi]

^It's possible, I suppose, but I would have thought that Ned's bones will either be sent back to the North with an escort, or to Robb's camp, possibly with Alton Lannister, rather than to Renly's camp, even if it is common knowledge that Catelyn is there.

I think a more likely reason for Littlefinger to end up in Renly's camp is as the Lannister negotiator to try and make a truce with Renly (who is probably one of the biggest threats they face, due to his large army, not to mention, Stannis and Robb are obviously not going to make peace with them), whilst Catelyn is there to do the same for Robb. Of course, in the books Littlefinger doesn't go to Renly's war camp, but it might be that they want to set up some scenes with Littlefinger and the Tyrells, and/or saw a good oppurtunity of having another scene with him and Cat. There are clearly some changes to the timeline, but I would have thought LF will still largely play the same role as he did in the book.

Of course, it might be interesting to see the scenario you suggested, too. I guess we'll see in the next few episodes!

[Purah]

It would be nice to see Littlefinger's interactions with the Tyrells (I don't think I'm alone here) and his meeting with Cat, and subsequent rejection, will force him to change his plans, giving insight into the way he thrives on chaos, taking opportunities on the fly.

[Ser Lepus]

I think that scene makes future events a bit more unrealistc. I can´t see any Lannister trusting Littlefinger so much as they do (except Tyrion, who knows that he is dangerous) in the books, after a scene like that.

[Janicia]

I loved the crazy Cersei grin.