28 replies to this topic

[swarmsea]

I'm almost finished with the first book (yay!).

I thought about this the other day, in our world, which is outside Westeros (uh-ahm!), people who practice close bloodline relationships, meaning - giving birth to their children, will face the fact that their children probably will be sick because of the incest / genes thing, I do believe that sometimes they turn out just fine and without any problems. But can we say that the same thing works in the story?... I sometimes think of Joffrey being either too uptight or rather mentally ill.

Any thoughts ?

[Chrido]

This is my first post and I´m german-speaking. Please don´t be disturbed by my wording.

I don´t want to spoiler you. But I think in the first book the Targaryen practise of marrying was mentioned? And you read about King Aerys Targaryen? I think, the incest thing isn´t overrided in ASoiaF. It is cemented.

[GuardianofWinterfell]

I always wondered how the Targaryens could keep producing healthy offspring if they kept practicing incest, especially a brother/sister relationship.

[Chrido]

They produced healthy and unhealthy offspring.

Edited by Chrido, 03 April 2012 - 02:49 AM.

[Drowsey Dragon]

Also a lot of lunatics and at the time of the Game of Thrones, there are not many Targs left. This could be do to inbreeding and many miscarriages or premature deaths.

[The hairy bear]

The probability of having "sick" children due to incestous relationships is usually overstated. There is a somewhat greater chance, but it's far from being the norm.

A good example is the famous Egyptian queen Cleopatra, who not only wasn't malformed, but was reputedly one of the most beutiful and clever women of the time. But her parents were brother and sister, and hence she had only one set of grandparents. Those grandparents were uncle and niece, again limiting the number of ancestors.

[GuardianofWinterfell]

I've heard that people only considered her beautiful for other reasons...

But that makes sense. The offspring that were born healthy probably were included into the family tree, while the ones born with deformations were excluded.

[Payme]

swarmsea, on 02 April 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

I sometimes think of Joffrey being either too uptight or rather mentally ill.

Any thoughts ?

If "evil-little-prick" is a side effect of incest, then you may be on to something...

[justashadow]

Ok...if the Targaryens married each other to keep bloodlines pure, then how come Rhaeyrs married outside the family?

[Sheyria]

I heard that waaaaay back it was normal for brother and sister to marry each other. Even though the thought sickens me. When I first saw all the incest in AGOT the series, I was shocked hahha. With Cercei and Jaime! I was like, wait a min... eren't they brother and sister? what the.... the more I saw, the more normal it seemed IN FICTION ofcourse.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Based on the family tree of House Targaryen, you can see that there have been almost as many non-Targaryen/Valyrian marriages as there have been Valyrian marriages. About 9 Valyrian marriages and 8 Non-Valyrian marriages. It hasn't been constant incest.

[Sheyria]

TheMysteriousOne, on 28 September 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Based on the family tree of House Targaryen, you can see that there have been almost as many non-Targaryen/Valyrian marriages as there have been Valyrian marriages. About 9 Valyrian marriages and 8 Non-Valyrian marriages. It hasn't been constant incest.

This was something I didn't know.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Sheyria, on 28 September 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

This was something I didn't know.

When I first read the books I thought that it had always been brother to sister, but then when I studied the family tree I saw that there were many non-Targaryen marriages, for example Viserys I married a Hightower and Arryn, and Daeron II married into Dorne

[Sheyria]

TheMysteriousOne, on 28 September 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

When I first read the books I thought that it had always been brother to sister, but then when I studied the family tree I saw that there were many non-Targaryen marriages, for example Viserys I married a Hightower and Arryn, and Daeron II married into Dorne

Yes, I thought the same thing. I didn't think of looking at the tree, but in the book they make it seem like only brother and sister, to keep this bloodline pure

[The BlackBear]

GRRM always quotes inbreeding as producing two effects: it increases and exaggerates characteristics. Leading to his Great/Mad dichotomy.
I think he has limited the damage done by inbreeding.
Joff is the way he is because of his Mother, and lack of a caring father figure. Tommen and Myrcella seem to be perfectly sane and healthy.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Sheyria, on 28 September 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yes, I thought the same thing. I didn't think of looking at the tree, but in the book they make it seem like only brother and sister, to keep this bloodline pure

Well, earlier on it was mainly brother-sister, but later on they kind of married more politically. All of Daeron II's sons, except for Aerys probably married non-Targs

[TheMysteriousOne]

I think the Targaryen madness is exaggerated. Baelor I, Aerys II, and a few others were mad, not the majority

[Sheyria]

TheMysteriousOne, on 28 September 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Well, earlier on it was mainly brother-sister, but later on they kind of married more politically. All of Daeron II's sons, except for Aerys probably married non-Targs

I thought Dany was the first one to marry a non-Targaryen

[TheMysteriousOne]

Sheyria, on 28 September 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I thought Dany was the first one to marry a non-Targaryen

If she ever reigns as queen, then she'll be the like ninth Targaryen ruler to marry a non-targ. Elaena Targaryen, another example,  married three times, and none of her husbands were Targs.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Sheyria, on 28 September 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I thought Dany was the first one to marry a non-Targaryen

Even Aegon the Conqueror was born from a non-Targaryen union. His father was Aerion Targaryen and his mother was Velena Velaryon, (a Valyrian, but not brother to sister).