99 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFlame]

I had a ton of fun with this show last season. It's pretty and I stayed interested in the characters. Neil Jordan's a bamf.

Anyhoodle, season 2 starts April 8th, but Showtime put the first episodeon YouTube.

Thoughts? I really liked it. It's super pretty. Not wild about Cesare's new haircut.

Spoiler

I was sad to see the Neapolitan prince die! He was such a funny weirdo.

The bath scene had me cracking up, as did the meeting with the French envoy.

I'm still wondering if they're going to explore the Cesare/Lucrezia incest rumor. "Should I envy him?" when Lucrezia talks about her hot stable boy? Hmm... That said, I never had a brother growing up so I don't quite understand how really close siblings of different genders interact.

Curious to see what lengths Gulia goes to in order to keep Rodrigo.

[Memory Lane]

Spoiler

I hope they do explore the Cesare/Lucrezia situation. There's been incestuous overtones in their conversations since Season One

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[PhoenixFlame]

Teehee, yes, me too.

I think a chunk of the season was filmed in Budapest. I think that's a better investment than in actual Italy. Rome blew so much of its budget by shooting there.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Thanks PhoenixFlame

Spoiler

I liked it. The camera shots and angles were phenomenal, as was the acting and costumes. I know I shouldn't say it here... but it was much better then AGOT. The brothers fighting was awsome! Did Alexander VI's third mistresses just become a spy and a mistresses for his second mistresses? Lol, a shame it was on youtube, we missed alot of porn and cursing. I also am intrigued by the Cesare/Lucrezia situation, but im more interested (this show is kinda gross) by the historical rumors of Alexander VI/Lucrezia which im sure will be in the show as well

[Memory Lane]

PhoenixFlame, on 04 April 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Teehee, yes, me too.

I think a chunk of the season was filmed in Budapest. I think that's a better investment than in actual Italy. Rome blew so much of its budget by shooting there.

That makes sense. I was wondering how they managed to shoot such great Army and combat sequences on a $40 million season budget in Season One, and with a major actor's salary involved as well (Jeremy Irons).

[PhoenixFlame]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 05 April 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Thanks PhoenixFlame

Spoiler

I liked it. The camera shots and angles were phenomenal, as was the acting and costumes. I know I shouldn't say it here... but it was much better then AGOT. The brothers fighting was awsome! Did Alexander VI's third mistresses just become a spy and a mistresses for his second mistresses? Lol, a shame it was on youtube, we missed alot of porn and cursing. I also am intrigued by the Cesare/Lucrezia situation, but im more interested (this show is kinda gross) by the historical rumors of Alexander VI/Lucrezia which im sure will be in the show as well

Heh, I was like "WTF?!" last season when Lucrezia paid a visit to her dad when he was sleeping and he immediately started cuddling her. I'm horrible and my mind resides in the gutter though. My family has never been touchy feely so I don't always know what's "normal" for families who are.

[Leia]

Great start of the season 2!

As for future, I seriously doubt that there will be any incest between Rodrigo and Lucrezia... With Cesare maybe, but I don't think producers will go that far either... But, hope dies last!

As for season 1 I felt sorry for prince Djem, he was so sweet!

[TheEvilKing]

PhoenixFlame, on 03 April 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Spoiler

I was sad to see the Neapolitan prince die! He was such a funny weirdo.

Not sure if he's dead, he was just being tortured at the end right?

Spoiler

Didn't he marry Lucrezia in real life or am I remembering Wikipedia wrong?

[Leia]

Yes, he was just tortured.

Spoiler

There are a lot of differences between the show and the real history, but I believe Lucrezia will have to marry him eventually in the series as well.

[PhoenixFlame]

Leia, on 08 April 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Yes, he was just tortured.

Spoiler

There are a lot of differences between the show and the real history, but I believe Lucrezia will have to marry him eventually in the series as well.

*wipes brow* Thank goodness; he's too droll to die!

[TheEvilKing]

His voice is incredibly nasal. It's almost inhuman.

[Maia]

Nice to have the Borgias and their gorgeous costumes back!

Anyway, I bet that Alexander's caper with the baby will give rise to the rumors of incest with Lucrezia and the baby being his.

Ditto, that the doctor will help Alphonso  escape - unless they decide to smash history to smithereens, that is. I guess that he was too much of a cocky little shit when first introduced and they decided to ennoble him through suffering, so that his future role would come through as more poignant.

[PhoenixFlame]

Looks like they did kick history in the junk...

But otherwise, I LOVED tonight's episode. All the things that make it good -- pretty sets and costumes, sexy people, random moments of humor, and an interesting family dynamic.

Oh and WHOA THE KISS

Spoiler

that Lucrezia gave Cesare

. Am I reading too much into it?

I love that they haven't forgotten Cesare has an evil streak. But whoa Juan, dick move.

I wonder if Rodrigo's attempts to help Rome (of course never at his own expense) will backfire in his face (foretold by the hawk eating the doves), sealing his legacy as a total asshat. If I remember correctly though, other popes thought he was a great Pope in terms of civic administration.

...The Borgias from the show and the Borgias from Assassins Creed: Brotherhood are clashing mightily in my head.

[Maia]

PhoenixFlame, on 15 April 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Looks like they did kick history in the junk...

Yea, and why on earth did they do it?
An opportunity for character-defining change for Lucrezia  lost. True, the whole thing with Paolo does hit on the some of the similar notes, but historical events and their most popular contemporary explanation would have been way more powerful, IMHO.

I am afraid that the show-runners like their Cesare too much and are afraid of following his progression of increasing personal awfulness. They also go out of their way to paint Juan as the evil one and make us sympathize with Cesare's view of him.

At least the apprentice gal serves some kind of non-sexual function in this episode... except that of course an apprenticeship, leave alone one with an artist cost a lot of money, so somebody like that could hardly be termed a poor person or likely to have particular sympathy towards beggars, etc. But OK, she'd be more in tune with the people than the pope and that Harun-al-Rashid interlude was funny.

[Leia]

PhoenixFlame, on 15 April 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Looks like they did kick history in the junk...

Looks like it yeah, I was pretty surprised :S

PhoenixFlame, on 15 April 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

The Borgias from the show and the Borgias from Assassins Creed: Brotherhood are clashing mightily in my head.

Definitely! Borgias in AC were ultra-evil, these in the show aren't really... Cesare especially, he is very selfish and arrogant in AC (which I believe is more historically correct) and Cesare from the show kinda wants only the best for his family...

Well I watched the third episode also, and I think they went too soft with them in the show...

Spoiler

Rodrigo actually caring about the poor people, I mean come one, I doubt he was like that in history

And I'm absolutely loving Juan's evil side, he is such an interesting character... Oh and, king Charles VIII also, he is so likeable on his own way!

Anyway, excellent first three episodes and I hope they won't continue with too much straying away from actual history!

[TheEvilKing]

Tremendous 2nd ep if somewhat predictable, it was too obvious the whore and Narcissus were going to die. Shame about Alphonso. Julia Farnese is pretty awesome this season.

[PhoenixFlame]

Leia, on 16 April 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Looks like it yeah, I was pretty surprised :S

Definitely! Borgias in AC were ultra-evil, these in the show aren't really... Cesare especially, he is very selfish and arrogant in AC (which I believe is more historically correct) and Cesare from the show kinda wants only the best for his family...

Well I watched the third episode also, and I think they went too soft with them in the show...

Spoiler

Rodrigo actually caring about the poor people, I mean come one, I doubt he was like that in history

And I'm absolutely loving Juan's evil side, he is such an interesting character... Oh and, king Charles VIII also, he is so likeable on his own way!

Anyway, excellent first three episodes and I hope they won't continue with too much straying away from actual history!

My theory is that Cesare will become nastier as the story goes on. I think the actor said in an interview a lot less people were going to like him by the end of the season.

Spoiler

In this episode, for instance, he was quite nasty to his ex-girlfriend, even though they seemed to have reached an accord during Lucrezia's labor.

I was wafflng a bit on Rodrigo's development, but I think it'll work. Here's why.

Spoiler

Rodrigo might develop some brief passion for helping the poor, but it's only by forcing others to give money. Give some of his own? The thought never crosses his mind in the episode. He has a total Caesar complex too, so I think it might be feeding off of that. His newfound generosity will probably end  at the same time his fling with the artist does (if it does). Finally, if I remember my history, Rodrigo was a very corrupted pope but he was quite a good administrator and diplomat. I know that in the cities Cesare conquered, for example, the populace was pretty cool with him since he came in, hit hard, and didn't mess with peasants too much. Caterina Sforza would doubtless not agree, but Cesare was a dick to nobles who opposed him.

If adorably awful can describe someone, it would be King Charles VIII, lol. He's so funny and seems mild-mannered...until he pillages a city or sticks someone on a Judas' Chair.

As far as Lucrezia, maybe since she married two Alfonsos they decided to do away with one. The Naples' Alfonso died pretty quickly. Though I would've LOVED to see Cesare kill him in the show...yes that's sick and depraved but think of the character development!

[Maia]

PhoenixFlame, on 16 April 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

If adorably awful can describe someone, it would be King Charles VIII, lol. He's so funny and seems mild-mannered...until he pillages a city or sticks someone on a Judas' Chair.

I dunno, that seemed completely gratuitious. I don't see why you'd need to add invented cruelty to a story set in 15-16th centuries under the Borgias... there was more than enough hisrorical one.

And Charles VIII was not in any way known for being particularly cruel. He was just a silly young man with dreams of glory, who managed to quickly piss away most of what his famous father and his sister built up during their tenures. Of course his wars caused a lot of suffering, but there is no evidence that he reveled in it.

I agree that the character they made out of Charles is quite entertaining, though. Seemingly shy, self-deprecating and unconsciously funny and then Bam! Terrible things happen.

Quote

As far as Lucrezia, maybe since she married two Alfonsos they decided to do away with one. The Naples' Alfonso died pretty quickly. Though I would've LOVED to see Cesare kill him in the show...yes that's sick and depraved but think of the character development!

Indeed, amazing opportunity to end her loving sibling relationship with Cesare with a bang. And it is fairly likely that historically this developement gave her impetus to want to separate herself from the Borgias.
IIRC, she actually asked for the marriage to Alfonso d'Este and personally wooed him via correspondence, likely because she wanted to escape her birth family and stigma associated with them for good.

[Leia]

Actually, I was pretty surprised to see Cesare acting violently towards Ursula... In season 1 he didn't leave the impression of being able to act like that to someone he ''loves''... But since I don't like Ursula I was glad And I am happy to hear that Cesare will slowly unveil his true nature

Oh and Jeremy Irons is doing such a perfect job with the Pope. I believe this season will be way better than the first. And imagine what chaos will there be when/if Rodrigo dies in one of the next seasons, it will be interesting to see the Borgia downfall...

And besides looking forward to see how the production will (or will not) follow history, I am particularly interested in Lucrezia's development. By the end of the season she will be a real Poison Ivy.

P.S. Sansa Stark reminds me of Lucrezia a lot actually, from going to sheltered and naive child to soon hopefully manipulative and ambitious woman

[PhoenixFlame]

I think Cesare wouldn't have acted like that toward Ursula in season 1. But he's getting nastier. Not entirely black -- his intervention with Lucrezia and her stableboy was sweet (screw you Juan), but getting harsher. Having Michelotto around can't be good for one's morals. I'm glad to see Michelotto having more personality this season. He was kind of blandly creepy last year (the prince of Naples stole the creeper show).

Jeremy Irons still gots it! Damn that man is charismatic. And his little slum tour with his mistresses was kind of cute. I loved the ladies' outfits.

I've gotten a Lucrezia vibe from Sansa since Storm of Swords. You're not alone!

Edited by PhoenixFlame, 16 April 2012 - 06:32 PM.