264 replies to this topic

[Pellaeon]

And start!

[Dracarya]

She would have been eaten by a direwolf. She does not like the north, and the north does not like her.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

He'd have died years earlier, and there would be no Starks at Winterfell.

[Faint]

There is one factor that is a real wild card in these discussions, which I’ll get to at the end of my post.

Speaking generally though, the realm would have been much better off. Ned and Cersei would have despised one another but actually less so than Robert and her. Cersei would have hated the North obviously, but she would have loved her children, as she does now. Their children would have been married off to Robert’s children with whatever wife he’d have had and the incest problem goes away with Jaime stuck in King’s Landing.

The only problem, and the wild card I mentioned above, is Jon Snow. Put simply, Cersei would not have put up with him living in Winterfell. Either Ned would have been forced to send him away to foster somewhere else, or Cersei would have attempted to have Jon killed, and whether successful or not, this would have lead to untold complications.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Poor Ned.

[The Frosted King]

It might not have turned out badly.
Ned might have gentled Cersei.
There might be chilliness at first, but they could likely reach a comfortable place.
Ned would never disrespect her as Robert did, and he's not a man to be defined by his lusts.
In fact, his similarity to her father might hasten the potential fondness.
But he'd be able to show warmth, whereas Tywin was always cold.

Jon would've been fine, especially without the crown being a tenous possibility.

I actually wish there was a way of reading this alternate take.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

In more detail

Problems that would arise with Cersei being married with anyone.

a) she is a sociopath and a murderer before she marries anyone in the story, in my view.
She wouldn't treat people in Winterfell with sufficient decency because she is a horrible misanthropic person and she will act worse than usual due to her being in the north, being pissed and taking out on people she can hurt. Her personality would make any normal human being starting to despise her, especially the likes of Ned.
c) she wouldn't like the north and she is not the most adaptable person the way Catelyn was. Nor is she a person who is likely to see behind appearances, really appreciate the goodness inside Ned. Also she would compare him with Jaime and find Ned lacking due to Ned's appearance, Ned being less passionate, looking less like her than Jaime did, not being a Lannister, not being as obsessively in love with her as Jaime was.
d)  She would try to get Ned to the South so that she can continue her romance with Jaime and be in the South. Ned would probably be against it so she would hate him.  She would also probably not like his personality. It is possible that she tries to kill him.
e) Yes I see it possible for her to try to get Jon Snow killed if Ned insist of having him in Winterfell as a brother to her children, Cersei would certainly take this as a threat to her children and she is certainly capable of murder.  This will have very bad circumstances.  Maybe Ned realizes the danger and sends Jon Snow away regretfully as he wanted him to be raised along with his children as a brother to them. This becomes even harder if he did promise Lyanna that.
f) There is a minor possibility that Cersei would have grown to love Ned if she had children with him , adapted to the north, not done anything dangerous but that is not who Cersei is. As Lyanna said, it is not easy to change a person's nature. Still there might be some possibility.  Also Ned is unlikely to murder Cersei's children no matter what, is better than Robert in so many ways, so that makes it more unlikely for her to murder him.
g) If they have children together, Cersei is not a good mother. If Ned who unlike Robert would care about raising his children a different way, taking away influence from the mother, she wouldn't like it. And yes Cersei is capable of murder though as always different circumstances makes one wonder if she would be less likely to resort to that.

I wouldn't wish for anyone to marry Cersei really.  Lets assume no taboo or social pressure against the marriage and Jaime is free to marry her. Maybe Jaime for a while as she did love him and Jaime was the kind of person who would let Cersei raise her children as she cared and was obsessively in love with her. Though considering Cersei's personality and enormous vanity that is based on love of one's self and image even if society had no taboos against incest I wonder how their relationship would be once they grew older and uglier.  Would she despise Jaime for becoming ugly? Despise herself? I am not sure Cersei has the maturity to handle ugliness, and sufficiently old age, in fact I don't think she had such maturity.  I can't picture old Cersei and old Jaime living happily together.

All in all Catelyn is a billion times better person that Cersei and due to that I get the feeling that despite having many regrets in his life, Ned also had experienced love and happiness in his life too. So I see Ned's life becoming much more miserable and his life more dangerous.  On the positive side for the realm, Cersei can do less damage through being wife to the lord of Winterfell, than queen.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, 03 April 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Grand Duke De Nobcheese]

Ned is luvvable....she would have fallen for him in such circumstances.

[Chalais]

Well if there ever had been a Cersei/Eddard marriage it would certainly have been memorable, one worthy of song in fact.

"The Ballad of a Lion-Direwolf Marriage Made in the Seven Hells"

[Crystal]

I'm really interested in this "alternative". As pointed out by Scootydowop, and I agree, Ned is similar to Tywin, but he's more gentle and he'd be kind to Cersei. I think Cersei would find his personality traits appealing and I have a feeling she'd be proud of having a husband like Ned. On the other hand, Cersei is an intelligent and ambitious woman. Ned's future would really come down to her, IMO. If she learned to love him (and I think she would) the two would make the most powerful couple of the generation. If not, Ned would live a short life and he'd be betrayed in the end. She'd certainly love the kids, though.
The best thing Ned could do for Jon, however, would be to send him off as soon as Cersei moved in. Unlike Cat, Cersei would never agree to Jon's presence. She would make it clear that she finds the boy's presence disrespectful. In other words, her feelings would be just like Cat's, only she wouldn't submit to Ned's will. I suspect Ned would see that it's better for Jon to leave and that would be it.

[seeyouintee]

Gonna have to agree with Sand Snake No. 9... Cersei'd have killed Ned years ago. If she'd done a good job of hiding it, there'd probably be even fewer Starks than there are now. If not, a similar war would've started years earlier, so not much of a difference from how it actually is.

[Winter's Knight]

I honestly believe that she'd have been much more stable and much happier.

[The Frosted King]

At first glance, i do think Cersei would find Ned lacking, as Catelyn did when compared to Brandon. But once time and consistent contact did what it often does, i think happiness could come. Maybe not a great passion, but Ned and the north in general isn't conducive to such a mood, but i do feel something real could take root.

[Golden Lady]

I don't see this working out. Cersei and ned are very different.he is very naive,compared to cersei.I think they would't have been happy.maaaaaaaaybe, they could have felt some love in a certain point.but I don't think ned would ever fell in love with someone like cersei.

[Baitac]

Noooooo! I love Ned. Cersei had been shtooping her brother for years. I don't like her at all. Besides, Robert led the rebellion. He was the one who needed to solidify his position.

[The Storm Queen]

Winterbreath, on 03 April 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I honestly believe that she'd have been much more stable and much happier.

Ned would neither beat her nor rape her and he sure as hell would not whore around in her plain sight. I honestly do not know if this was enough for a happy marriage but I am sure that the outcome even in the worst case would be better than in the Robert/Cersei marriage. Besides, I always got the impression that in the North women generally have more freedom which would probably make Cersei less discontent.

[Crystal]

My thoughts, exactly The Storm Queen. Ultimately, Cersei is a very proud woman and Robert's actions were incredibly disrespectful. Ned wouldn't treat her that way, but he wouldn't hold her on a pedestal, either. Cersei would want to manipulate him, but she's smart and she'd soon realize that she can't do that with her looks only. He'd become a challenge for her and at the same time she'd find him more appealing (Cersei can't stand weak men, IMO). I think she would learn to respect him and that respect would eventually turn to love. Ned, on the other hand, would always treat her respectfully (and he'd soften as soon as she'd soften). Also, a woman like Cersei by his side would be an asset, as she's more cunning. Ned would become the most powerful man in Westeros if Cersei learned to love him.

[ishmael]

The Storm Queen, on 04 April 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

Ned would neither beat her nor rape her and he sure as hell would not whore around in her plain sight. I honestly do not know if this was enough for a happy marriage but I am sure that the outcome even in the worst case would be better than in the Robert/Cersei marriage. Besides, I always got the impression that in the North women generally have more freedom which would probably make Cersei less discontent.

I am in agreement with you.  Ned would in no way treat her as Robert did.  He would respect her and show her compassion where Robert flaunted his disrespect for her and lust for other women in her face and out in plain sight for all to see.  Ned would not whisper another woman's name to her in a drunken stupor.  While she may not initially find his looks to compare to Jaime and Rhaegar, she would have found his drive to be honorable himself and to keep the Stark name honorable, much like her father trying to restore the Lannister name, to be more than enough offset her want for a "pretty" husband.  Ned would also treat her as more of an equal, as the North seems to do, than anyone else she might have married.  This would have worked to soften her.  While I don't think their marriage would ahve been perfect, I do think it would have the potential to grow to be very strong.  It certainly would not be as toxic as her and Robert's.

I'm undecided about Jon.  She may have had a problem with him, but she eventually may come to understand Ned and not hold Ned's one instance of dishonor, prior to their marriage or hint of their marriage, against Jon.  I  think she would have assumed that Jon was with a result of N+A, becasue she believes they were in love, and she would not have been as hung up on it as Cat was.

[Chelly]

Fire&Blood, on 03 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

She would have been eaten by a direwolf. She does not like the north, and the north does not like her.

But before she is eaten, they would have had amazing makeup/breakup sex.

No, seriously though. I don't know if Cersei would have changed much, but she would be a lot less bitter being that she had a good husband who cared for and treated her with respect and equality. Actually, I think a big selling point Ned would have on getting Cersei to love him is that he would treat as an equal. This is a big issue for Cersei considering she always felt she got a raw deal being born a woman and all.

[Vinterhed]

Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, on 03 April 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

I wouldn't wish for anyone to marry Cersei really.

I would wish for Ramsay marrying Cersei.