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[Book Spoilers] Ep 201 Discussion Part 2


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#1 LugaJetboyGirl-irra

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:03 PM

So you don't have to read through 27 pages anymore.


Go!

#2 Ran

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:35 AM

For those who are arguing the wolves -- they are real wolves the show is using. Not CGI models. They composite them into the scenes digitally. This is why their proportions are like those of real wolves.

Proportion problems aside, these wolves look a lot more realistic than TV-grade models would have looked. I'm not complaining.

#3 teemo

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:45 AM

I think the direwolves look awesome. I can't ask for much more than that. And the fact that they are totally going there with Bran and his dreams is just great.

#4 Howdyphillip

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

Happy Ent

They are royalty. Well fed. And both are known as the most beautiful women in the realm. They should be beautiful.

Whores are not. Not today, and not then. That’s what I’m objecting to: the argument for gratuitous sex scenes from verisimilitude. Because the sex scenes we get are the opposite of verisimilitude. It’s as if some cast members talked with a heavily Californian accent or used l33t sp33k. The sex scenes are cut out of a 90s soft porn movie. They scream “this show is on meekly pseudo-raunchy American cable TV!!!” and pull me right out of the experience.


The character of Ros is not just an average street walker. She is a prostitute for Lords and Nobles. That is the only people we have ever seen sleeping with her. Of course she is going to be better looking than the norm if she is landing that kind of clientele.So actually, it functions very well from verisimilitude.

To put it in a modern day equivalent, she would be one of the $5,000.00 escorts that Eliot Spencer paid for rather than a $20 street walker.

#5 seeyouintee

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:24 AM

For those who are arguing the wolves -- they are real wolves the show is using. Not CGI models. They composite them into the scenes digitally. This is why their proportions are like those of real wolves.

Proportion problems aside, these wolves look a lot more realistic than TV-grade models would have looked. I'm not complaining.


No pleasing some people. I'm just glad we're not dealing with season 1's dire puppies who all looked ready to harrass you for kibble rather than engage in direwolf badassery. I've got zero complaints with season 2 dire wolves.

#6 Lord of Cheese

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

For those who are arguing the wolves -- they are real wolves the show is using. Not CGI models. They composite them into the scenes digitally. This is why their proportions are like those of real wolves.

Proportion problems aside, these wolves look a lot more realistic than TV-grade models would have looked. I'm not complaining.

No pleasing some people. I'm just glad we're not dealing with season 1's dire puppies who all looked ready to harrass you for kibble rather than engage in direwolf badassery. I've got zero complaints with season 2 dire wolves.


I would have liked the direwolves to look more harsh/ferocious than just a normal CG enlarged wolf. Perhaps with fur that clumps together making the fur look like triangular scales, kind of like we see on the direwolf head and neck that is on the HBO clothing and on some ppls avatars etc... I would have liked to see bigger teeth too.

CG tools are quite mature by now and there should be enough people skilled with them to at least do more than enlarge a normal wolf in a way that doesnt blow the budget.

But oh well... its done now. Im not too upset by it though.

#7 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

I would have liked the direwolves to look more harsh/ferocious than just a normal CG enlarged wolf. Perhaps with fur that clumps together making the fur look like triangular scales, kind of like we see on the direwolf head and neck that is on the HBO clothing and on some ppls avatars etc... I would have liked to see bigger teeth too.

CG tools are quite mature by now and there should be enough people skilled with them to at least do more than enlarge a normal wolf in a way that doesnt blow the budget.

But oh well... its done now. Im not too upset by it though.

I don't know what kind of budget the Twilight movies have but probably quite a bit, seeing how much money they have made. The LotR movies also had a great budget to make effects from. Both those series of movies have provided furry CGI creatures that look worse than Gray Wind and Ghost have looked in my view. Granted the show haven't had them in much action yet, which is a lot trickier, but if GoT had made them purely CGI they would likely have looked significantly worse in the scenes that have been in the first two episodes.

As for the Stark emblem that's not supposed to mean that dire wolf fur is clumped together. Heraldic symbols are always simplistic drawings and that was just the simplistic way to show flowing fur and get a clear 'end' to the wolf's neck.

I'm personally very pleasantly surprised with the quality of what they did with the dire wolves. I am of course able to immerse myself even if it had been CGI models of mediocre quality (that's after all the job of the viewer, to make an effort) but the job became much easier than I thought. I'm intrigued to see what tricks they will use when it comes down to more action oriented stuff.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 04 April 2012 - 10:02 AM.


#8 PhoenixFlame

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

With today's technology, it's time restraints that kill a lot of CGI. TV shows are on an even tighter timetable than films are. To me, it's a way smarter move not to waste resources on pure CGI wolves that will only look crappy.

#9 LugaJetboyGirl-irra

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:57 AM

My favorite CGI was the dragon. Holy crap. He was so awesome and natural and realistic looking. I loved that he was awkward and unbalanced. I loved the way he jumped into Dany's hand. He should be on Cuteoverload.

#10 ghost the direwolf

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:27 AM

I love the wolves so much, I screamed of joy and jumped off my seat when i saw Grey Wind. I daughter looked at my as if I was crazy. Ghost will be awsome and Summer and Shaggydog too. can't wait to see them.

#11 ghost the direwolf

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

Grey Wind looked much better than the werewolves in Twilight. I hope we will see him in action tearing people ect...

Edited by ghost the direwolf, 04 April 2012 - 11:32 AM.


#12 Francois Clegane

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

Grey Wind looked much better than the werewolves in Twilight. I hope we will see him in action tearing people ect...


Indeed! I'm really looking forward to seeing Grey Wind in action!!!

#13 Chise

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:53 AM

while you guys are all trading direwolves nitpicks... can we talk for a second about Craster?
just like Shae is clearly written as a Sand Snake, Craster is now clearly Manse.

No really, look at him again - instead of Late Lord Frey the remix we get this big healthy clean guy who speaks like he's in a radio-play. Thats Manse ( in my head at least when reading books) through and through! .... at this rate, they'll have to up it up a notch and Manse will just be Sherlock or The Master

#14 Mark Antony

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

just watched it again and liked it a lot better than the first watch, still the Maester Cressen scenes were rushed imo but other than that no real complaints. I've already gotten over the Cersei/Littlefinger scene tbh.

#15 tearloch

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

I would have liked the direwolves to look more harsh/ferocious than just a normal CG enlarged wolf. Perhaps with fur that clumps together making the fur look like triangular scales, kind of like we see on the direwolf head and neck that is on the HBO clothing and on some ppls avatars etc... I would have liked to see bigger teeth too. CG tools are quite mature by now and there should be enough people skilled with them to at least do more than enlarge a normal wolf in a way that doesnt blow the budget. But oh well... its done now. Im not too upset by it though.

I am a bit confused. Where did GRRM ever describe HIS version of direwolves as anything other than really big versions of regular wolves? This isn't a horror filck. This isn't a video game. IMHO, HBO is depicting the direwolves exactly has GRRM describes them in his books.

#16 tearloch

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:12 PM

while you guys are all trading direwolves nitpicks... can we talk for a second about Craster? just like Shae is clearly written as a Sand Snake, Craster is now clearly Manse. No really, look at him again - instead of Late Lord Frey the remix we get this big healthy clean guy who speaks like he's in a radio-play. Thats Manse ( in my head at least when reading books) through and through! .... at this rate, they'll have to up it up a notch and Manse will just be Sherlock or The Master

I didn't like the HBO craster, but I definitely don't see Mance there. I picture Mance being slim and trim, with some charisma....almost like a long lost Stark. I did picture Craster is much dirtier, both in appearance and action.

#17 Mista C

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

During the scene when Joff is renovating the throne room, they clearly show the stained-glass window above the iron thone as being a seven-pointed orange and red star with clear glass all around it. I was re-watching some Season 1 episodes yesterday and noticed that the stained-glass window above the iron throne was a very colorful design, which i couldn't really make out, but there was definately no star and it was way different. (A good place to see it is in Episode 5 when Littlefinger and Varys have their discussion in the empty throne room). I know that Joff tells the queen that he want's the room to look more like it belongs to a conqueror and not have vines and flowers, but would he really have changed out the windows as well? I know that this is a ridiculous issue to even bring up, but it jumped right out at me becuase I had just re-watched S02/Ep1 and then watched S01/Ep5 right after, so I was like "What's up with the window above the iron throne, it's different". Anyone else notice this?

#18 Hyper

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:45 PM

I didn't like the HBO craster, but I definitely don't see Mance there. I picture Mance being slim and trim, with some charisma....almost like a long lost Stark. I did picture Craster is much dirtier, both in appearance and action.


The Craster complaints are a bit weird to me. Yes, he is vile, and has a creepy personality. Does he also have to look that way? I personally appreciate some contrast instead of going for the typical clean & pretty = good, dirty & ugly = evil. Can't we move beyond that? This is one of the (few) areas where the book treads closer to typical fantasy character tropes, so I'll gladly accept a more nuanced portrayal.

The contrast it provides against the scruffier looking Nights Watch is also nice.

Edited by Hyper, 04 April 2012 - 01:09 PM.


#19 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

while you guys are all trading direwolves nitpicks... can we talk for a second about Craster?
just like Shae is clearly written as a Sand Snake, Craster is now clearly Manse.

No really, look at him again - instead of Late Lord Frey the remix we get this big healthy clean guy who speaks like he's in a radio-play. Thats Manse ( in my head at least when reading books) through and through! .... at this rate, they'll have to up it up a notch and Manse will just be Sherlock or The Master

Why would one of the sand snakes be white? Seems like a stretch to make that fit together.

And why would it be such a big thing that Craster isn't filthy? I just think it looks like he gets all the good things (proper baths, meals etc) while his wives are basically his property. I agree with Hyper that this is just breaking some stereotypes and shows that the people beyond the Wall are very varied and not just one bunch of savages.

#20 Chise

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:03 PM

Why would one of the sand snakes be white? Seems like a stretch to make that fit together.
And why would it be such a big thing that Craster isn't filthy?


and why can't a Sand Snake be white exactly? The show been veering off book so much, why can't ye old Dorne boy charm himself a Highgarden milkmaid and get a white daughter?

as for Craster - ok, he doesn't need to be filthy looking, as in dirty. My bad. BUT he still doesn't sound or look creepy and bastardly and just batshit as the book version... If the scene before didn't bring up daughter-fucking and the mystery of what happens to the sons... I never would have known the guy is batshit from the way he holds himself
Watch Frey - in first 5 seconds all the creep~factors are shown loud and clear. Craster, not so much