77 replies to this topic

[DannySpud]

I watched season 1 before I read any of the books, and I consider myself a reasonably intelligent viewer. I was very surprised by Littlefinger's betrayal and when I subsequently read the books I was reasonably  surprised by Theon in CoK.

The vague mistrust of LF by all the characters in GoT is extremely hard to get across without POV especially when the only proper move he makes is at the end. "The scene" was good at showing he wasn't trustworthy, but didn't reveal more than that. You don't know who's side he'll be on. Same with Theon, you know that he isn't completely Stark but not to the extent that he's going to do what he does.

[turdle]

i get that this is a complex story, and that it's hard to put all the pieces together. however, with regards to my complaints, there is nothing to put together.  it isn't a matter of some people understanding and some people not.  when little finger betrays ned, it doesn't matter at all if the audience understands littlefingers past with cat, what matters is that they understand that ned needs LF help, and LF fucks him over.  that's all they need.  in season 1, it doesn't matter at all that theon is a ward, it doesn't matter at all that pycelle sleeps with whores.  no one needs these bits of info to get the story we're told in season 1.  even if the entire audience thought that theon was a stark right up until the season finale, the events of season 2 are going to clear that right up for them.

[Joe Scallywag]

About Pycelle sleeping with whores, I never gave that a seconds thought, to me they where just showing that he is putting on an act of a frail old man that does just as much scheming as everybody else.

[Harle The Handsome]

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 05 April 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

It appears that the rest of the children, or at least a good portion of them, were in KL.

Robert's bastards are all over Westeros.  Remember, this man made the eight!

[atia-]

Yeah, don't forget Mya Stone and Edric Storm and R'hllor knows who else.

[Dragon greyscale]

turdle, on 07 April 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

i get that this is a complex story, and that it's hard to put all the pieces together. however, with regards to my complaints, there is nothing to put together.  it isn't a matter of some people understanding and some people not.  when little finger betrays ned, it doesn't matter at all if the audience understands littlefingers past with cat, what matters is that they understand that ned needs LF help, and LF fucks him over.  that's all they need.  in season 1, it doesn't matter at all that theon is a ward, it doesn't matter at all that pycelle sleeps with whores.  no one needs these bits of info to get the story we're told in season 1.  even if the entire audience thought that theon was a stark right up until the season finale, the events of season 2 are going to clear that right up for them.

I guess that's right to an extent but don't you think that characters have to be built up in order for the plot developments to matter to audiences? You make it sound rather mechanical, as if person x only matters in season 2 therefore we only need to know about him in season 2. I think it makes for better TV if you establish the personalities and responses of the characters as well. The reason we see Robb scolding Theon in season 1 is also to establish his status: he will never truly be a stark. This is emotional info. Theon does not feel accepted. This makes his decision in season 2 a lot more understandable. If you were to cram that info into season 2, it'd be too rushed.

[turdle]

Dragon greyscale, on 08 April 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

I guess that's right to an extent but don't you think that characters have to be built up in order for the plot developments to matter to audiences? You make it sound rather mechanical, as if person x only matters in season 2 therefore we only need to know about him in season 2. I think it makes for better TV if you establish the personalities and responses of the characters as well. The reason we see Robb scolding Theon in season 1 is also to establish his status: he will never truly be a stark. This is emotional info. Theon does not feel accepted. This makes his decision in season 2 a lot more understandable. If you were to cram that info into season 2, it'd be too rushed.

no one is saying to not build up characters, what i'm saying is don't ONLY focus on the things that are going to be of importance to the plot later, because it draws too much attention to them. in the case of pycelle, the plot development IS that he's with a whore. it's the reveal, through tyrions eyes, that pycelle is not merely an old fool, but is actively and intentionally dirty.  that wad has already been shot now, and to little effect, maybe a chuckle.  with regard to theon, his status as a ward isn't important (season 1), but that's not to say that bringing it up wouldn't be a good idea. but, in my opinion, bringing it up EVERY time we see the poor guy is pushing it too far.  tyrion rubs it in his face, maester luwin reminds him of it, ros rubs it in his face, rob rubs it in his face, maester luwin AGAIN reminds him of his status in the stark household. it's not until the end of the season, when theon pledges his loyalty (gods only know why he would given all we've seen) to rob, that he actually gets some screen time without being taken down a peg by a member of the stark household/whore.

Edited by turdle, 08 April 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[protar]

I actually quite liked this scene, the only problem was the gracious nudity. It was literally as if the producers had gone "Oh shit! We've had a whole episode without sex, quick shove some in!" And the fact that they passed up a perfectly good oportunity to have a story relevant Tyrion/Shae sex scene, just goes to show how shallow they're being.

Other than that though it was pretty good. The killing of Robert's Bastards worked really well and Ros discovered clothes!

[WetHair]

I sort of thought Ros looked heavy and surprisingly unattractive compared to last season.  I don't think administration, as opposed to actually being part of the work force, agrees with her.  It was pretty funny though to hear her repeat LF's critical comments to her and Apathetic Whore #2 as if it were now her own original view.  And whyever did she happen to have a slew of make-up taking up space in Theon's bedroom in Season One?  Why even need to refresh her looks?  Is she planning on getting more custom between Winterfell and town?

[Envie]

In regards to everyone thinking Ros looks 'fat' in season 2, I disagree. I think its because she was dressed in King's Landing fashion (which are heavy brocade dresses with odd front pieces on them) and wearing her hair in the wide hair-bun fashion favored by ladies there. I watched the scene again too and there's part where she's walking away from the guards and you can see the belt / sash around her waist and its still quite a slender waist. I think filming and costume make Ros look fatter, and also, she rarely had clothes on at all in previous season so of course she looks different.

Her repeating Littlefinger's words to her when she first joined his whore house is just a clever way of saying she's now worked her way up the corporate ladder and is now in charge (managing) the place while Littlefinger's busy screwing with the throne.

[RoamingRonin]

I like the character Ros, just not her story. For one: she meets a lot of important main characters. This sort of happens in the books: every main character meets and interacts with at least one of Robert's bastards. But the difference is that they are all meeting different people, not the same person over and over. Is it plausible Ros has managed to meet a lot of important people in Westoros? Yes. Likely (considering she's a whore)? No. I would like her a whole lot more if she could be integrated into the series better. She sticks out way too much as being a character made for TV.

This is just a technical gripe but her scenes are ALWAYS louder than the rest and she's ALWAYS having sex or around it... It's just the worst to be watching the show with the volume up a little, speakers on, and all of a sudden it sounds like your watching a porno.

[Roboginger]

RoamingRonin, on 08 April 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

This is just a technical gripe but her scenes are ALWAYS louder than the rest and she's ALWAYS having sex or around it... It's just the worst to be watching the show with the volume up a little, speakers on, and all of a sudden it sounds like your watching a porno.

I completely agree - I live in an Apartment and this really bugs me.


Another thing - the fact that LF was spying in on little peep holes kinda bugged me seemed out of character from what i imagined.

[Rohanne]

I did not care for Ros in season 1,but in season 2 I seem to be coming around to the idea of an insider into several different characters. I could definitely do without such graphic scenes she tends to be in. I understand some but it is beginning to be a little much.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Roboginger, on 10 April 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Another thing - the fact that LF was spying in on little peep holes kinda bugged me seemed out of character from what i imagined.

did not see that!

[Roboginger]

RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon, on 11 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

did not see that!

LF is no common pervert, he is a devious schemer bound for great things!!

[turdle]

Roboginger, on 11 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

LF is no common pervert, he is a devious schemer bound for great things!!

i take it as LF is spying, not meerly trying to get his jollies.

[Lors' Edrick]

I have the answer we are all seeking, the character of Ros will take the place of

Spoiler

SYRIO, the mystery has been explained; HA

[StannisandDaeny]

RoamingRonin, on 08 April 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

This is just a technical gripe but her scenes are ALWAYS louder than the rest and she's ALWAYS having sex or around it... It's just the worst to be watching the show with the volume up a little, speakers on, and all of a sudden it sounds like your watching a porno.

I know right! On top of that people excel, literally excel at walking into the room the two seconds such a scene takes place.

As for Ros, I didn't recognize her at first, she looks so different! Her face looks like it's been stuffed. She's a good actress so I respect that, but many of her scenes seem kinda pointless from a 'I've read the books' kinda viewpoint. Which means I can imagine so-far-non-readers do have a need for her as a narrative device. Still there's something I appreciate about her presence I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it's just that it's interesting to have a commoner as an actual character as well, because these people are after all also getting involved.

Edited by StannisandDaeny, 11 May 2012 - 06:20 PM.