239 replies to this topic

[funkymonkey]

yeah sure, she's annoying but is that enough reason to want her dead?

[David Selig]

Look a few pages back, there must'be at least 5 long threads on this topic.

[Zeromus]

They have been conditioned by the patriarchy.

[David C. Hunter]

Zeromus, on 06 April 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

They have been conditioned by the patriarchy.

I can assure you 100% that that has nothing to do with it. If Dany was a teenage boy who acted that same I would hate him just as much. Speaking of which, I'm starting to hate Aegon for the same reasons. He's seems to be a spoiled brat who also feels entitled, so yea it's a targ thing evidently.

Edited by David C. Simmons, 06 April 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[FuzzyJAM]

Zeromus, on 06 April 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

They have been conditioned by the patriarchy.

For many people, Dany has committed the one sin no fictional character can be forgiven for: being boring.

[David C. Hunter]

For the most part most readers are rooting for a particular house whether they want to admit it or not. Most are prob Stark fans. There are also many Lannister loylists as well as Baratheon, Martell, etc. What's hilarious about the equation is that other than the Martells, everyone has screwed the Dragons in the past and Dany it would seem cannot pass up a chance to shit on the families(who she has no knowledge of) or threatened to end them once she travels across the narrow sea. Naturally most readers resent this because most of the emtional losses in the series occurs in westeros to those said families and now it seems that while they are all fighting each other, this little girl who cant hold a sword, has more advisors than any of the other families in the series combined, with the unquestioned loyalty of drone soldiers, and three dragons are just going to swoop into westeros and burn everything alive, and it is insulting and people resent that. Because it cheapens the personal struggles of everyone is westeros and it gives it a deus ex machina ending.

If the story began with the sacking of king's landing maybe many people would feel differently about this series, but it began with honorable people dying, children getting pushed out of the window and family feuds that have yet to be reconciled. If the Starks reunite again, if Stannis somehow admits that he loved his brothers, if Jaime and Brienne get together...only for the dragons to destroy everything again...it would piss alot of people off. Not everyone, but it would piss alot of people off. Thats why people hate Dany, because she is the Harbinger of the deus ex machina ending that could happen

[Noimporta]

I think a westeros.org drinking game is due.

[Wellspring]

I first started reading anti-Dany screeds after ASoS. The feeling was that she was turning into a bit of a Mary Sue rather than a teenage girl trying to navigate an impossibly complex situation with no training. After ADwD, the new complaints were that she was acting like a teenage girl with no training rather than the Mary Sue they loved up until then. Now, I suppose we ought to go back and look at userids to be sure, but some evil little voice in my head is telling me that these are the same people both times.

Also, Meereen has worn on people's patience. I think if ADwD had been passed between GRRM and an editor a couple times, we'd have seen one or two of those chapters dropped or merged. Some of it was the Meereenese Knot, and trying to get Victarion, Tyrion, Jorah, etc etc all there and straightened out. As the reader, we're supposed to be fatigued reading those chapters. GRRM wrote them at the height of the anti-war movement and wanted to make a statement about quagmires, but the lesson (to the extent we need him to get anvilicious in the first place) was obsolete by the time the book came out. It leaves us just sitting here on the tarmac waiting for the plot to take off.

And leaves Dany bearing the brunt of the blame.

[David C. Hunter]

Wellspring, on 06 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

I first started reading anti-Dany screeds after ASoS. The feeling was that she was turning into a bit of a Mary Sue rather than a teenage girl trying to navigate an impossibly complex situation with no training. After ADwD, the new complaints were that she was acting like a teenage girl with no training rather than the Mary Sue they loved up until then. Now, I suppose we ought to go back and look at userids to be sure, but some evil little voice in my head is telling me that these are the same people both times.

Also, Meereen has worn on people's patience. I think if ADwD had been passed between GRRM and an editor a couple times, we'd have seen one or two of those chapters dropped or merged. Some of it was the Meereenese Knot, and trying to get Victarion, Tyrion, Jorah, etc etc all there and straightened out. As the reader, we're supposed to be fatigued reading those chapters. GRRM wrote them at the height of the anti-war movement and wanted to make a statement about quagmires, but the lesson (to the extent we need him to get anvilicious in the first place) was obsolete by the time the book came out. It leaves us just sitting here on the tarmac waiting for the plot to take off.

And leaves Dany bearing the brunt of the blame.

I started disliking Dany after ACOK, then I really disliked her after ASOS. After ADWD I was rooting for Team Green Grace and hoping Ser Drinkwater would steal her dragons

[Gromdal]

I think the real truth is, that most people hate her, because she is in Esos. I hear this sentence a million of times "Essos is what ruins the book" which is absolutely not true. Esos is part of it as much as Westeros.

But  many people don't care about the real quality of this book and just want "the fast paced advance of the story" without thinking what the story is really about and completely ignoring (not missing) the point. And for them Esos part of the book is not important until Dany comes to Westeros with dragons and "starts owning everything" which I absolutely don't see happening. And because Dany is in Esos people target their hate to Dany. Real reason why most of the people hate her is cause she is stuck in Esos, and doesn't move to Westeros, while some readers want Esos story to be done with...

Edited by Gromdal, 06 April 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[wyman's cook]

Essos is ruining the story..seriously...up till a certain point it was cool, interesting and exotic..It just got out of hand and ended up being awefuly boring and meaningless...
ADWD could have been the best book in the saga, if it wasn't for those draging Tyrion and Dany arcs

[protar]

Gromdal, on 06 April 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I think the real truth is, that most people hate her, because she is in Esos. I hear this sentence a million of times "Essos is what ruins the book" which is absolutely not true. Esos is part of it as much as Westeros.

But  many people don't care about the real quality of this book and just want "the fast paced advance of the story" without thinking what the story is really about and completely ignoring (not missing) the point. And for them Esos part of the book is not important until Dany comes to Westeros with dragons and "starts owning everything" which I absolutely don't see happening. And because Dany is in Esos people target their hate to Dany. Real reason why most of the people hate her is cause she is stuck in Esos, and doesn't move to Westeros, while some readers want Esos story to be done with...

Martin himself has said that Essos is only important in relation to Westeros, and that primarily the story is about Westeros. He's clearly planned for Dany's invasion of Westeros to be a major part of the story and yet for 3 books now, Dany has got no closer to that. In GOT and COK you felt like Dany was progressing and even in SOS her detour to Slaver's Bay was to get an army. Yet in DWD she hangs around Meereen for a whole book not doing anything. I like Essos believe it or not. I do not like reading a dozen chapters of Dany sitting on her arse being a terrible queen.

[Independent George]

Noimporta, on 06 April 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I think a westeros.org drinking game is due.

Are you trying to kill me?

[Gromdal]

protar, on 06 April 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Martin himself has said that Essos is only important in relation to Westeros, and that primarily the story is about Westeros. He's clearly planned for Dany's invasion of Westeros to be a major part of the story and yet for 3 books now, Dany has got no closer to that. In GOT and COK you felt like Dany was progressing and even in SOS her detour to Slaver's Bay was to get an army. Yet in DWD she hangs around Meereen for a whole book not doing anything. I like Essos believe it or not. I do not like reading a dozen chapters of Dany sitting on her arse being a terrible queen.

Shes a terrible queen in an place where she can't be a good queen, there is no chance to be good in her situation and that was clearly intended. She started a massive social revolution in a society that is completely based on slaves, by destroying the one thing that held that society together: Slaves. That event also destroyed the economy of Slaver's Bay and left people starving.  So in her wish to bring freedom she also brought destruction. I think that is what Martin wanted to show in Meeren, that a noble goal like giving people freedom can also bring destruction and death to those people also because the change was so radical. That said for society to recover from that it will take decades, and she really can't do anything in the long term.

I see analogy there in US wars, where they go to "bring democracy" to other countries but end up only bringing destruction...


Edit: And yes, main theme is clearly in Westeros, and that main theme is Winter. Winter that will last for decade and that Westeros will have a hard time surviving because all of the food supplies are wasted on war.
That said I don't see Dany coming to Westeros and conquering stuff, I don't even see her trying. Not after the lessens she learned in Meeren. She will arrive in Westeros at the end, but she has greater purpose than the Throne which lost all of its importance. If Martin intended for her to fight for the throne he wouldn't create her story arc the way he did.

Edited by Gromdal, 06 April 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[Lan the Clever]

FuzzyJAM, on 06 April 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

For many people, Dany has committed the one sin no fictional character can be forgiven for: being boring.

Exactly. Besides, so many people want/expect her to become the queen and save the world, that I just don't want it to happen.

But mostly, because she's boring.

[Thunderfist]

People hate Dany because she is the character that generates 2-3 "Why do people hate Dany?"-threads / week

And also, Dany is probably the character with the lowest "Awesomeness/Page"-ratio. The girl has 3 dragons but spends her time nibbling olives and doing pointless things with pointless people in a pointless part of the world. Look at a character like Oberyn Martell, he had more awesomeness in 3-4 chapters than Dany has had in the entire series.

Edited by Thunderfist, 06 April 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

I don't know about the rest of the people but I've never liked her. I cannot with her arrogant and shallow personality. I think she is and would be a terrible queen so I hope she never sits her ass on the Iron Throne, sorry, burning people alive, crucifying people, ordering torture, forgiving crimes cause it was her people who commited them, that's not the queen I want for Westeros. Also dragons, I know people like them but I don't like WMD.

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 06 April 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[wyman's cook]

what is MDW ?

[Val the Wildling Princess]

wyman, on 06 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

what is MDW ?

Sorry! Mass destruction weapons.

[My blade shall cut lies]

I want to kill Dany because in the simplest terms: She is a boring, unintreasting, stupid, shallow, haughty, and insane character who has never interacted with anyone of the POVs from Westeros and probably never will. Aside from her having Dragons, she does nothing that effects the story. The Great Other should find her, cut off her head, and stick her head on a pike. Her story isn't going anywhere and I feel like she was added to the cast just so we can have another female POV.