40 replies to this topic

[Vinterhed]

There are some themes that keep popping up in book after book, chapter after chapter: 1. Incest, Cersei/Jaime, Targaryans, Craster, Theon and his sis etc.
2. Cannibalism, inside Bloodraven cave, outside the cave, Vinterfell, Kingslanding before the attack etc.
3. All this reference to shadows greek filosophy style, plus shadows that kill.
4. Demasculation, all this castration, Varys, Reec, the unsullied etc.

Anything you want to add to the list?
What is your theory opinion about these themes?

[eyeheartsansa]

the legitimization of bastards is a pretty huge deal.

[Teal'c]

Pretense of death to hide from enemies, whether purposeful or not. Examples Bran and Rickon, Arya, Ramsay Snow, Davos, and I believe Rhaegar is on the Quiet Isle.

Raising people from the dead. Examples Catelyn, Beric Dondarrion.

Sneaking kids out of castles to protect them. Examples Viserys, Daenarys, Sansa, Edric Storm, Aegon (maybe). Usually they go to Essos.

People hiding at Illyrio's mansion. Viserys, Dany, "Aegon," Tyrion.

People wearing someone else's armor or helmet therefore impersonating him. Examples Garlan Tyrell in Renly's armor, was it Biter that was wearing the Hound's helmet.

Edited by Teal'c, 06 April 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Queen Beyond the Wall]

Teal, on 06 April 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

People hiding at Illyrio's mansion. Viserys, Dany, "Aegon," Tyrion.

Sounds like a euphemism...

'Why didn't Renly consummate his marriage with Margery?'
'He prefers hiding in Illyrio's mansion'.


I apologize for my twisted mind.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

This is pretty loose (as i couldn't find anywhere else to bring this up lol) but castration is fairly widespread.

Basically i wanted to ask if everyone assumed poor Theon was castrated by Ramsay, but what im wondering  is if he has lost everything (we know the evil bastard  liked to flay body parts until someone begs him to removeit all together) or whether he has been mutilated so badly he can't use it.

[Lady Hodor]

Undead characters come up a lot.
Disguise and deciet of identity.
Bloodline and trueborn children.
Bastards and ilegitmacy.
Reputation and past histories.
Revenge, hatred, grudges and murder.
Power and a lust for it.
Family and family ties.

[Winter's Knight]

Blood.of.my.Blood, on 08 April 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

This is pretty loose (as i couldn't find anywhere else to bring this up lol) but castration is fairly widespread.

Basically i wanted to ask if everyone assumed poor Theon was castrated by Ramsay, but what im wondering  is if he has lost everything (we know the evil bastard  liked to flay body parts until someone begs him to removeit all together) or whether he has been mutilated so badly he can't use it.

I interpreted his "not a man" bit differently-I assumed it meant Ramsay had raped him. It seemed to make sense when you consider how sexually charged his interaction with Ramsay is in ADWD.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

But he constantly references not being capable anymore and when bolton asks him to get his new wife ready he panics and says he can't and bolton clarifies to use his mouth.

[Winter's Knight]

Blood.of.my.Blood, on 08 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

But he constantly references not being capable anymore and when bolton asks him to get his new wife ready he panics and says he can't and bolton clarifies to use his mouth.

I just looked it up-mercy, the things I forget.

It does read like he has been castrated, poor Theon.

[Ragnar Of The North]

Loss of hands/fingers also happens a lot

[Teal'c]

Winterbreath, on 08 April 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I interpreted his "not a man" bit differently-I assumed it meant Ramsay had raped him. It seemed to make sense when you consider how sexually charged his interaction with Ramsay is in ADWD.

I hadn't realized Ramsay raped him, but this probably correct. Maybe Theon is intact but impotent due to the psychological trauma. He may be self conscious about the appearance of his genitals because he thinks others will "see" his shame from the raping.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Lots of scarred and mutilated faces.

Lots of missing noses.

Lots of missing ears.

Of course, these could all be considered the natural consequences of medieval-esque warfare, rather than a theme, but consider how many major characters are affected:  Tyrion, Brienne, Loras, Myrcella, Sandor, most notably.

[Silver Spearwife]

Blood.of.my.Blood, on 08 April 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

This is pretty loose (as i couldn't find anywhere else to bring this up lol) but castration is fairly widespread.

Basically i wanted to ask if everyone assumed poor Theon was castrated by Ramsay, but what im wondering  is if he has lost everything (we know the evil bastard  liked to flay body parts until someone begs him to removeit all together) or whether he has been mutilated so badly he can't use it.

I'm pretty sure it's gone, and I'm assuming it was flayed first.

If I remember correctly, the conversation on Jeyne's wedding night went something like this:

"Reek, get her ready."
"M'lord, I can't...I don't...I have no..."
"With your mouth."

Sorry for bringing up that brain-bleach moment. Anyway, I distinctly remember him saying, "I have no--" which indicates to me that it's not that he can't even though he still has something. He can't because it's gone.

There's also a running theme of happy marriages never surviving. I mean, within the on-page action. Cat and Ned had a very happy marriage for a long time, but by the end of the first book one of them is dead. In fact, happy couples generally don't last more than a book.

[Teal'c]

Yes, the "I have no" makes it pretty clear. Thanks for the quote.

[Silver Spearwife]

Oh that is not exact, lol. I don't own the books.

[Teal'c]

Well I do, so here it is, your memory is pretty good.

ADWD p 499 hardcover:

"I...do you mean...m'lord, I have no...I..."

[Chronicler]

Well he must at least have taken Theons foreskin

EDIT: There was something in that text though that made me think Theon hadn't been castrated.

Though probably it's mostly me hoping he hasn't been. Would be to harsh.

Edited by Chronicler, 08 April 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Yeah i hated it when i realised what was being hinted at kinda like theon's equivalent of Jaime losing his hand.

To be honest i hadn't got the impression he was raped.

[Chronicler]

Blood.of.my.Blood, on 08 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Yeah i hated it when i realised what was being hinted at kinda like theon's equivalent of Jaime losing his hand.

To be honest i hadn't got the impression he was raped.

Except one has two hands... =p

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Well yeah haha but Jaime has little to no skill with his remaining hand. . Or something. Ah you know what i meant!