457 replies to this topic

[Apple Martini]

DaveSumm, on 10 April 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

How did Gared (or Will in the TV show) get south of the wall?

There are gates at unmanned castles, like the Nightfort, where he could have gotten through undetected.

[DaveSumm]

Apple Martini, on 10 April 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

There are gates at unmanned castles, like the Nightfort, where he could have gotten through undetected.

Which according to Bran (who heard it from Benjen) are all blocked. Except the black gate which Bran, Sam, Jojen and Meera use, but it'd be very strange if Gared knew about that.

[Lykos]

@DaveSumm
I don´t see the problem.  He reported back to Castle Black and deserted afterwards.

[Dragonfish]

There is gap between the Wall and the ocean toward the west. It is heavily guarded by the Shadow Tower, but small parties can make it through undetected. That is presumably how Gared, the direwolf, and Osha's party made it south.

[DaveSumm]

Dragonfish, on 10 April 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

There is gap between the Wall and the ocean toward the west.

So there is. I sincerely hope they put some 'black gate'-esque magic in place over there.........seems a bit odd to leave a gap.

[Teal'c]

They travelled "north, northwest, and then north again." Looking a the map in ADWD, if they rode north to the Milkwater and followed the river it would take them northwest and then north again. Gawain probably came straight back down the river and past the Shadow Tower.

[Ser Lepus]

I can´t understand why there aren´t more crows who become friendly with the wildlings and join them during the long summer; escaping north, joining Mance and coming back with his army (or join a group of raiders and go through the Gorge, or build a ship like one of the turncloaks who killed Ser Jeor suggested).

[DannySpud]

In aCoK, what does Tyrion take from Pycelle's cabinet? It says he takes a vial but as far as I remember it's not revealed what's in it. It's making me wonder if

Spoiler

he was involved with the purple wedding.

[Ser Lepus]

DannySpud, on 10 April 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

In aCoK, what does Tyrion take from Pycelle's cabinet? It says he takes a vial but as far as I remember it's not revealed what's in it. It's making me wonder if

Spoiler

he was involved with the purple wedding.

It is

Spoiler

some laxative medicine. He gives Cersei an overdose and keeps her in her privy for a whole day or two, leaving him free to work without interferences. Later Pycelle says that Tyrion sacked his cabinet without explaining that he took only a mere laxative, making people think that it was poison.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 10 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Apple Martini]

DannySpud, on 10 April 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

In aCoK, what does Tyrion take from Pycelle's cabinet? It says he takes a vial but as far as I remember it's not revealed what's in it. It's making me wonder if

Spoiler

he was involved with the purple wedding.

Tyrion wasn't involved in Joffrey's murder. The only thing he took from Pycelle's cabinet was the potion he used to make Cersei ill and get her out of his way for a few days.

[Frey Pie]

Ser Lepus, on 10 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

I can´t understand why there aren´t more crows who become friendly with the wildlings and join them during the long summer; escaping north, joining Mance and coming back with his army (or join a group of raiders and go through the Gorge, or build a ship like one of the turncloaks who killed Ser Jeor suggested).

I guess its the fear of death. At the beginning it may be very tempting. But theres no mercy for NW deserters.

Also most deserters would have to be rangers as these are the only ones who regularly go beyond the Wall. These men would have probably killed a wildlng or two aswel. Or seen a friend or two killed by one so you wouldnt be so quick to desert to people you hate

[caffeinated]

Do you (the collective "you") think all of the people of Westeros hold off on naming their children the way Gilly insists on, until the second year?

I like to think all the kids are actually two years older than the ages given in the books. My reason for this is their use of "nameday" as opposed to "birthday."

Thanks!

[Winter's Knight]

caffeinated, on 10 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Do you (the collective "you") think all of the people of Westeros hold off on naming their children the way Gilly insists on, until the second year?

I like to think all the kids are actually two years older than the ages given in the books. My reason for this is their use of "nameday" as opposed to "birthday."

Thanks!

I never thought about it but it makes a lot of sense.

[DannySpud]

Ser Lepus, on 10 April 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

It is

Spoiler

some laxative medicine. He gives Cersei an overdose and keeps her in her privy for a whole day or two, leaving him free to work without interferences. Later Pycelle says that Tyrion sacked his cabinet without explaining that he took only a mere laxative, making people think that it was poison.

Apple Martini, on 10 April 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Tyrion wasn't involved in Joffrey's murder. The only thing he took from Pycelle's cabinet was the potion he used to make Cersei ill and get her out of his way for a few days.

Oh yeah! Thanks. That's what happens when I read a single chapter completely out of context...

[Apple Martini]

caffeinated, on 10 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Do you (the collective "you") think all of the people of Westeros hold off on naming their children the way Gilly insists on, until the second year?

I like to think all the kids are actually two years older than the ages given in the books. My reason for this is their use of "nameday" as opposed to "birthday."

Thanks!

I can definitely see where the idea comes from, but I don't think the normal Westerosi wait a full two years. The only people who really seem to insist on it are the wildlings. It is possible, though, that you're half-right and regular people do wait a predetermined length of time (say, a month) to make sure a child won't die before naming it, and that's where the "nameday" tradition comes from. Or it could be that Martin is just doing his Martin thing and nameday and birthday are synonymous.

ETA: And I think, regardless of the meaning of namedays, the ages given in the books are accurate. "It was ninth year of winter, and the seventh of Bran's life."

Edited by Apple Martini, 10 April 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[DannySpud]

caffeinated, on 10 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Do you (the collective "you") think all of the people of Westeros hold off on naming their children the way Gilly insists on, until the second year?

I like to think all the kids are actually two years older than the ages given in the books. My reason for this is their use of "nameday" as opposed to "birthday."

Thanks!

Apple Martini, on 10 April 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

I can definitely see where the idea comes from, but I don't think the normal Westerosi wait a full two years. The only people who really seem to insist on it are the wildlings. It is possible, though, that you're half-right and regular people do wait a predetermined length of time (say, a month) to make sure a child won't die before naming it, and that's where the "nameday" tradition comes from. Or it could be that Martin is just doing his Martin thing and nameday and birthday are synonymous.

ETA: And I think, regardless of the meaning of namedays, the ages given in the books are accurate. "It was ninth year of winter, and the seventh of Bran's life."

Namedays are an actual thing celebrated in much of mainland Europe. Each day of the year has a name associated with it, when your name day comes around it is very much like a birthday with presents and stuff. As an example, Stannis' nameday would be 11 April in France.

Edited by DannySpud, 10 April 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Winter's Knight]

Apple Martini, on 10 April 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

I can definitely see where the idea comes from, but I don't think the normal Westerosi wait a full two years. The only people who really seem to insist on it are the wildlings. It is possible, though, that you're half-right and regular people do wait a predetermined length of time (say, a month) to make sure a child won't die before naming it, and that's where the "nameday" tradition comes from. Or it could be that Martin is just doing his Martin thing and nameday and birthday are synonymous.

ETA: And I think, regardless of the meaning of namedays, the ages given in the books are accurate. "It was ninth year of winter, and the seventh of Bran's life."

In India, we wait a week or so before naming the baby and it is a ceremony so the week between birth and naming allows the mother to recover and participate.

[Serie]

DannySpud, on 10 April 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Namedays are an actual thing celebrated in much of mainland Europe. Each day of the year has a name associated with it, when your name day comes around it is very much like a birthday with presents and stuff. As an example, Stannis' nameday would be 11 April in France.

today???? Happy nameday Stannis!!!!

yes, namedays are really popular in Europe and it has nothing to do with birthdays. For example, christians' namedays are associated with celebrating some saint, therefore those who are named after this particular saint celebrate their name on this day

[Apple Martini]

Serie, on 10 April 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

yes, namedays are really popular in Europe and it has nothing to do with birthdays. For example, christians' namedays are associated with celebrating some saint, therefore those who are named after this particular saint celebrate their name on this day

Yes but wouldn't there be some overlap? Like, you were named for Some Saint because you were born on that saint's day. You're a girl born on St. Catherine's day so your parents name you Catherine, etc.

[Morrigan]

In the previous thread, I asked:

Quote

When does Arya learn the meaning of the words, "valar morghulis"? Jaqen tells her the words but doesn't explain their meaning. But IIRC, later in A Storm of Swords she somehow knows that it means "all men must die". I tried ctrl + f in the eBook and couldn't find where she learns the meaning, but I may have missed it. Either that or GRRM made a small mistake. [/background]

Someone answered this:

Quote

She learns it when she finds the Tyroshi ship in White Harbor and one of the crew mate's or the captain's son tells her what it means iirc

But that isn't the case. Here's an extract from that last ASoS Arya chapter:

Quote

“Wait,” Arya said suddenly. “I have something else.” She had stuffed it down inside her smallclothes to keep it safe, so she had to dig deep to find it, while the oarsmen laughed and the captain lingered with obvious impatience. “One more silver will make no difference, child,” he finally said.
“It’s not silver.” Her fingers closed on it. “It’s iron. Here.” She pressed it into his hand, the small black iron coin that jaqen Hghar had given her, so worn the man whose head it bore had no features. It’s probably worthless, but ...
The captain turned it over and blinked at it, then looked at her again. “This ... how ... ?”
Jaqen said to say the words too. Arya crossed her arms against her chest. “Valar morghulis,” she said, as loud as if she’d known what it meant.
“Valar dohaeris,” he replied, touching his brow with two fingers. “Of course you shall have a cabin.”

Then the chapter ends.

Yet in the first Arya chapter in AFFC, we have this:

Quote

Winterfell is burned and fallen, Arya reminded herself. Old Nan and Maester Luwin were both dead, most like, and Sansa too. It did no good to
think of them. All men must die. That was what the words meant, the words that Jaqen H’ghar had taught her when he gave her the worn iron coin.
She had learned more Braavosi words since they left Saltpans, the words for please and thank you and sea and star and fire wine, but she came
to them knowing that all men must die.

So... did I miss something, or did Arya magically learn the meaning of the words at some point? I think it's a small error by GRRM, myself. Not a big deal.

Edited by Morrigan, 11 April 2012 - 03:30 PM.