457 replies to this topic

[corbon]

rmholt, on 12 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

The wights:  I guess I got confused in the Ghost/wildling scenes.  The large number of wights encountered beyond the wall was said by Ygritte to be due to the opening of graves by Mance Rayder looking for the Horn of Joramun.  Whether it would have blown down the wall or not is legend and may not be fact but Mance apparently was not taking any chances.  I dont know why they didnt burn the corpses they dug up - perhaps they had also forgotten why they burned their dead - and then recalled when the wights came marching.  Kind of confusing.

I think you are still confused. Ygritte never claimed the wights are due to opening the graves. The Wildling were already fighting the Others, and losing, and facing larger wight-ified forces next time as a result, before opening the graves. That was when they started burning the dead. The opening the graves to find the horn was to try and bluff the NW into letting them south (from Mance's own mouth) though I think common wildlings like Ygritte thought it was to blow the wall down and escape south.
Opening the graves released shades, according to Ygritte, but this is almost certainly just a superstition. Shades are not wights and no efforts to combat them or physical 'results' are mentioned by Ygritte or anyone else. This is also similar to the Stark (shared gods, First Man heritage and probably other culture) belief that the crypts under Winterfell prevent the spirits (shades) of the dead from disturbing the living. Fairly standard anti-graverobbing cultural beliefs.

[COYStars]

A Free Shadow, on 12 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Jaqen simply told her the words and asked her to repeat and memorise them. But she did not know the meaning until the kid on the ship explained it. Or I am missing something in the question?

No, you see it exactly as I do. She knew the words. She just didn't know their meaning.

[Teal'c]

COYStars, on 13 April 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

No, you see it exactly as I do. She knew the words. She just didn't know their meaning.

I read it as she knew the concept all too well from her recent experiences, before she knew the translation from the Valyrian.

[protar]

What exactly is Mryish lace supposed to be? Does it have a real world counterpart?

[Lebronn Jaime]

protar, on 13 April 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

What exactly is Mryish lace supposed to be? Does it have a real world counterpart?

Egyptian cotton probably. Maybe chantilly lace.

[Lykos]

I think chantilly lace is a possibility, look for yourself.  I think it´s a further clue that Myr seems to be most advanced in technology and crafts.  Just as myrish glass, panes and lenses, the telescope was introduced to Europe by a dutch and lace was most noteable from Flanders.

[BabyMeraxes]

Why were the following people sent to the Wall?
Hot Pie
Lommey Greenhands
Dolorus Ed
Grenn

Jeor went of his own free will, right?

[Corm]

Hot Pie because his mother died and there was no-one to take care of him, at least the wall provided a meal and shelter. Lommy was a thief I think, that's why they dyed his hands. Dolorous was really poor or a wildling

Jeor went because his son disgraced him by becoming a slaver

Edited by Corm, 13 April 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[Apple Martini]

BabyMeraxes, on 13 April 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Why were the following people sent to the Wall?
Hot Pie
Lommey Greenhands
Dolorus Ed
Grenn

Hot Pie and Lommy were just orphans in the capital who went along for the promise of food and shelter, I think.
Dolorous Edd was a younger (?) son in an off-branch of House Tollett, so had no chance of inheriting anything.
Grenn I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure he was one who committed some minor crime (e.g. theft) and went as punishment.

[David Selig]

Lommy was caught stealing IIRC.

[Dragonfish]

Corm, on 13 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Jeor went because his son disgraced him by becoming a slaver

No, his son's disgrace occurred after Jeor had joined the Night's Watch. I think he simply joined for the honor of it, and to let his son become Lord of Bear Island.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

How does one join the Citadel? Do they have to be a Lord/Lordling, or just some noble blood, or can it be an average person. Does it cost money? Lands? Soldiers? Or is it covered by the King's tax?

[Apple Martini]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 13 April 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

How does one join the Citadel? Do they have to be a Lord/Lordling, or just some noble blood, or can it be an average person. Does it cost money? Lands? Soldiers? Or is it covered by the King's tax?

Good question. I get the impression that you don't have to be noble, but it's a popular path for younger sons/cousins in major houses (Leo Tyrell, the Manderly maester who was a Lannisport Lannister). It sounds like the Citadel operates on a meritocracy — if you can do the work, you're welcome. I think it also operates on a sort of patronage system — younger nobles join and their families make a donation of some kind.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Apple Martini, on 13 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Good question. I get the impression that you don't have to be noble, but it's a popular path for younger sons/cousins in major houses (Leo Tyrell, the Manderly maester who was a Lannisport Lannister). It sounds like the Citadel operates on a meritocracy — if you can do the work, you're welcome. I think it also operates on a sort of patronage system — younger nobles join and their families make a donation of some kind.

So why doesn't the kid with a crossbow who asks Jaime, Brienne and Cleos Frey "Lion, Wolf, or Fish" in ACOK become a Maester? It sounds a lot safer and healther then guarding an inn for people who are not your parents?
And thank you

Edited by Ndrew of Typhgarian, 13 April 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[Buckwheat]

Corm, on 13 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Lommy was a thief I think, that's why they dyed his hands.

His hands were dyed because he used to work with dye for clothing, IIRC.

[Apple Martini]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 13 April 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

So why doesn't the kid with a crossbow who asks Jaime, Brienne and Cleos Frey "Lion, Wolf, or Fish" in ACOK become a Maester? It sounds a lot safer and healther then guarding an inn for people who are not your parents?
And thank you

You'd still have to be able to keep up with the work. I imagine that poorer people would get less leeway than lazy Leo Tyrell.

[Lady Octarina]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 13 April 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

So why doesn't the kid with a crossbow who asks Jaime, Brienne and Cleos Frey "Lion, Wolf, or Fish" in ACOK become a Maester? It sounds a lot safer and healther then guarding an inn for people who are not your parents?
And thank you

Apple Martini, on 13 April 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

You'd still have to be able to keep up with the work. I imagine that poorer people would get less leeway than lazy Leo Tyrell.

I also wonder, do they have to know how to read and write already when they join the Citadel, or can they learn it there?

[Morrigan]

My memory is fuzzy about the Horn of Joramun. From what I gather, Mance pretended to have found it, but it turns out it was a fake. But wasn't there a twist later where it turns out he DID find it? Or am I conflating that with a fan theory that the broken horn Jon found in the dragonglass cache was the true Horn of Joramun/Winter?

Basically, my question is, "what's the current status on the Horn of Joramun?".

Edited by Morrigan, 13 April 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Corm]

Buckwheat, on 13 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

His hands were dyed because he used to work with dye for clothing, IIRC.

The quote is

Quote

He'd been a dyer's apprentice
before he was caught stealing, and his arms were mottled green to the elbow.

I must have read that as "he was a dyer's apprentice before he was caught stealing and his arms were mottled green to the elbow"

[Corvinus]

Morrigan, on 13 April 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

My memory is fuzzy about the Horn of Joramun. From what I gather, Mance pretended to have found it, but it turns out it was a fake. But wasn't there a twist later where it turns out he DID find it? Or am I conflating that with a fan theory that the broken horn Jon found in the dragonglass cache was the true Horn of Joramun/Winter?

Basically, my question is, "what's the current status on the Horn of Joramun?".

Ygritte tells Jon that they never found the horn
When Jon goes to parlay with Mance, he sees a big black horn in his tent and he assumes it's the Horn of Joramun
That horn is burned by Melisandre
Tormund later tells Jon that the black horn is just some horn they found and probably not the real thing.

Edited by Corvinus, 13 April 2012 - 11:12 PM.