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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

Spoilers Game of Thrones The Night Lands

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#21 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:22 PM

Yea, Littlefinger was actually scary in this episode. Again, that's a feeling I never got from him in the books, but it's better than coming off stupid like he did last week.

#22 Winter's Knight

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:22 PM

I adored Jaqen H'gar-and Sallador-props to the pirate for stating he wouldn't rape Cersei.

#23 sharkhawk

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:26 PM

I think Asha/Yara was perfectly cast. Read some people on other sites saying she wasn't beautiful enough. To me she was perfect, hot but with a Tomboy kind of imperfect look. Real athletic looking. The ship captains daughter was perfect too. Meh looking (but not chubby enough) and dumb as a box of rocks. The Roz scene could go. I defended the role, but now don't see the point. Bronn as city watch commander makes sense, no reason for another character there. Also could live without having to show the Mel/Stan sex scene, but I guess that is to explain the shadow killing of Renly in the next ep or two.

I'm also not a big complainer about deviating from the book, but I wonder how they are going to write the next episode after Craster knocks out Jon. I can't see the watch leaving after Craster brained him.

#24 sharkhawk

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

Oh loved the Sam and Jacqen casting too, and biter look great.

#25 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

Can someone please summarize the scene with Littlefinger and crying Ros - I'm totally lost. I have a hearing loss and even with headphones on and the sound cranked, I could not quite make out the entire convo since he whispered the entire thing. Ugh, frustrating! Who was the guy she was supposed to service and didn't? What's the story Littlefinger tells her about? I got the gist of it that she's really upset about the murder of the baby and LF is telling her about another woman (and that's the parts I couldn't hear right) -- would like hearing someone else's take on it.


She's traumatized by the baby-killing. Littlefingers acts like he's going to comfort her, putting his arm around her and whispering and such. But then he tells a story about a beautiful Lyseni whore he once bought who acted similarly depressed, and therefore couldn't get customers. "I hate bad investments...they haunt me," he tells Ros. Then he tells how he eventually sold this Lyseni to some Lord who wanted to "transform her", as a way of mitigating Littlefinger's losses. It was all a not-so-veiled threat to Ros: get your act together, youere here to make money, not cry and drive away customers.


What he meant by "transform" I don't even want to know. Sounded like some Qyburn shit

#26 HokieStone

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:28 PM

I think this may be my least favorite episode of the entire series, although it did have it's high points as well.

- Asha, er, "Yara" - My first reaction is "blah" - she doesn't show the same fire that she shows in the books. Hopefully she grows on me.
- Hated the Littlefinger brothel scene. Hated it. Or at least, the first part, the voyeurism and the gag with wiping the whore's face off, and have her immediately kiss another man. It again smacks of "we're on HBO, we'll show this just because we can".
- Stannis. Two episodes in, and I'm not buying Stannis yet. Personally, I never suspected a Stannis-Mel tryst in the books, but after seeing other comments, I can look back and see that it was hinted at. But the way it was done here...meh, that's not Stannis for me. But it's not just that...I will have trouble fully explaining, but he just doesn't fully act or talk like Stannis to me. For whatever reason, what jumped out at me in this episode was when he called Renly his "little brother". Maybe it's because to me "little brother" is most often used as a term of endearment...but I just don't ever see Stannis saying the words "My little brother".

#27 Rockroi

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:30 PM

So, I am starting to have a significant issue with the disparate nature of the series. Its not that I cannot follow what’s going on; its that I cannot really enjoy what’s going on. Before I can really enjoy Tyrion/Stannis/Arya in their mortal danger we seem to jump to the next character’s mortal danger; interspersed with this is the reality that much of what the characters are doing is still at the introduction level (most notably the Greyjoys and Stannis).

With that as a backdrop, here is what I liked:

Arya: I think Arya’s story-line is picking up well and staying true and straight. In other words, we don’t have much redirection away from the important stuff in the books. We get the meat on the bone and not any fat and we still feel satisfied. Of all the parts of the story, hers is the most even.

Tyrion: Basically, the best part of the book Clash of Kings remains the best part (overall) of Season two of GoT. Tyrion is smart (so fucking smart); he’s self-aware (as opposed to, say, Ned who had no idea just how blind he was), and confident. All the while he’s enjoyable, funny and bright. His dialog with Varys is not hard to follow but not really “dumbed-down” from the book. He is feisty and full of life; power does not appear to be the chore it was to Ned (and the fact that Tyrion references Ned was a nice touch).

Balon Greyjoy: I am stunned that I didn’t want to puncture my ear drum with his scenes. Balon Greyjoy is one of my least favorite characters in one of my least favorite story-lines. But here, is sounded more even and reasonable than he had in the book. Nicely done.

Ghost: Oh good; you’re still here.

Jon and Sam: Their scenes hold up really well; Sam is a much more complete character in the series than in the books. Jon is also very good- he has a harder edge to him than book Jon who was trying so hard not to outwardly appear like he wanted anything. In the series, Sam’s intelligence is not hampered by this need to show him as a coward; he is a smart guy who’s intelligence has a good voice. Jon meanwhile is conflicted and brooding but it has a humanity. Not bad at all.

Jury is still out:

Stannis the Priestess Fucker: Again, much like Renly and the Hound and “Shea’da’funnee’horr”, Series Stannis is different than book Stannis. And that takes getting used to. In the book, Stannis was all Iron. He has this confident and determined stride to him; he was impersonal, but starkly determined and grim. This Stannis seems a lot more flaky and chittering; like he’s trying to act tough but his name sounds less like “Stannis!” and more like “Melvin.” This Stannis lacks that iron-will that brooked no compromise and even less confusion. Series Stannis seems unsure, vacillating and almost timid.

And the fact that book Stannis was adamant about adultery makes his sweeping fuck of Mel on the Painted Table to be a little off-putting.

Then again, if that woman showed me that body…

The artificial cliff-hanger: I can understand why we had to catch Craster throwing his kids to the Others? But why the lame cliff-hanger? ZOMG! I wonder what happened?

The Absence of Robb/Bran/Joff/Cat/Renly/Jaime/Sansa: We didn’t see hide nor tail of like half the cast this episode. And I really think that is a good thing; the show needs to get tighter. At the same time, those characters are doing and seeing a lot that needs explanation and perhaps some items that we did not see in the books. But that leads me, inexoriably, to…

What I did Not Like:

A Tear For Roz: Just. Stop. The experiment has failed. Roz isn’t working. And in an episode where you could not find time for (see above), you found time for this ancillary character? So we could see how upset she was? And I’m not saying the woman playing her is not the second-coming of Merril Streep or anything but in a scene where the character is crying it would help if the character was actually crying. ANYWAY- Peter gets to tell us a story about what a hard-ass he is. We knew that already. What did this scene tell us? Not sure.

All I know is that its leading me to this new game we should play- you know that web meme – Evil Bert? Where Bert pops up in pictures of Osama bin Laden and the JFK assassination and at Klan Rallies? Well, I am wondering what the show will do next with Roz? Where will she appear next? Will she be an Astapor slaver? Will she vote for Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch? Will she be in Oldtown? Seriously? Where will this completely disposable character end up next?

Overall, it was a very fragmented episode wherein every scene felt like it should have gone on longer or had more in it and where nothing felt connected or integrated. It was not bad, but it was somewhat forgettable.

#28 The Red Lamb Chop

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

I think the point of the Stannis/Mel sex scene was so that when Mel gives birth to her Stannis shadow baby thing, it's not gonna be a "Well how did that get there?" moment. Like, when people ask "What the heck? How is Mel giving birth to that?" they'll be able to point back and be like "Aha! You see, when Mel told Stannis she would give him a son and he impregnated her (in what was to me a very awkward sex-scene), she actually meant that demonic thing was the son." so all in all, she does give him a son; it's just not human...

Speaking of Stannis's heir, was I the only one saddened by the confirmation of Shireen's nonexistence?

#29 Ser Hippie

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

Liked this episode a lot apart from a couple of scenes.

LF/Ros - just felt unnecessary and I'd rather have spent time elsewhere.
Asha/Yara seemed a bit off to me but I'm not too bothered.

Loved Sallador (I also enjoyed one recap where the reviewer who didn't know his name referred to him as "Salad or Sandwich"), Balon was nailed perfectly. The Tyrion/Varys, Tyrion/Janos and Tyrion/Cersei scenes were fantastic as well, especially when you see Tyrion realizing the mess he's stuck in.

Arya/Gendry was done well, and I'm glad to see Yoren's translated well to the screen, as I'm a big fan of him in the books.

Edited by Ser Hippie, 08 April 2012 - 11:33 PM.


#30 Dark14

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

I figured Asha(yara) would be better looking to.

Why would they kill Rhakaro to he is kinda needed why not just recast him if that's the issue i mean he had like two lines in season one who would have noticed. kinda PO'd at that. Same with Stannis/Mel isn't the whole thing with Stannis that he always does the right thing no matter if its hard... now he just looks like a man to go out whoring with Robert and Mel looks a whore instead of priestess.

#31 Sphinx The Riddle

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

I wonder if Aegon the Conquerer ever used his dragon table for that.


/cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

#32 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:32 PM

God, must people hate on everything new? Davos and Sall were great in this episode. Yara is a good fit as well. Warrior women shouldnt be beautiful - she was sexy, which is all that matters as far as her looks are concerned. And she played the role well

#33 Envie

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:34 PM

She's traumatized by the baby-killing. Littlefingers acts like he's going to comfort her, putting his arm around her and whispering and such. But then he tells a story about a beautiful Lyseni whore he once bought who acted similarly depressed, and therefore couldn't get customers. "I hate bad investments...they haunt me," he tells Ros. Then he tells how he eventually sold this Lyseni to some Lord who wanted to "transform her", as a way of mitigating Littlefinger's losses. It was all a not-so-veiled threat to Ros: get your act together, youere here to make money, not cry and drive away customers.


What he meant by "transform" I don't even want to know. Sounded like some Qyburn shit



Thank you SO much - man that scene confused the crap out of me. I knew Littlefinger was threatening her somehow but since I couldn't really hear what he was whispering that well, and none of that is from the books, I lost the whole conversation pretty much. I'm not sure why that scene was necessary AT ALL. I have defended Ros's addition to the cast in the past pretty heavily - saying how she's been a great transition device to tie together some of the loose ends with a few characters we don't get all the details about in the show... and that she's probably headed for another role in Alayaya's place... but this scene with Littlefinger seemed complete pointless unless I'm missing the point along with my hearing! /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#34 TeemuOfHouseSelanne

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:34 PM

Was that definitely Rhakaro? He doesn't play a huge role in the books, but as Dance progressed GRRM seemed to be building him up for some sort of Queensguard-type position or something. I saw a version without Dothraki subtitles so I'm not totally clued in.

Tyion/Slynt is one of my favorite moments and I thought the show nailed it. Bronn taking over the goldcloaks can only be considered a plus, his relationship with Tyrion was one of the best parts of season 1 and this just allows for more Bronn then we would have had, while not affecting how his character arc plays out. Balon was damn near perfect, Asha had the 'tude but maybe not the look. Davos never really speaks allowed about his support for the seven in the books, rather keeping those thoughts to himself, so I have no problem with how the show is approaching his beliefs, especially because the casting choice was damn near perfect.

Excited to see Marg and Brienne next week.

Also just wanted to touch on the Stannis/Mel bangfest, I think it's one of the few instances where HBO actually succesfully uses sex to help the plot along. While reading it didn't occur to me that Stannis was actually banging Mel till she offered it up to Davos. It may have really confused a TV audience when Mel has a Stannis shadow baby later on.

Speaking on Mel, that's exactly how I pictured her. Great casting call.

Edited by TeemuOfHouseSelanne, 08 April 2012 - 11:43 PM.


#35 Sphinx The Riddle

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:36 PM

my problem with craster doming Jon is.. wheres Ghost??

Edited by Sphinx The Riddle, 08 April 2012 - 11:36 PM.


#36 Corvinus

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:37 PM

Didn't like the Rakharo thing one bit. Something tells me that he still would have had a role to play past ADWD. Maybe now they can bring Jogo.

#37 J_Crews

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:41 PM

The loss of Rakharo was a bit jarring to me, but the other changes were mild in my opinion.

Having Joffrey be responsible for the purge of his father's (or so he thinks) bastards makes him a better villain; Jon witnessing Craster giving the babe up to the Others is more powerful than learnig about it through exposition; Bronn acting as a stand-in for Ser Jacelyn Bywater keeps them from having to pay another actors salary just to have him do Tyrion's bidding all season (which Bronn is also all about anyway), then croak in the Battle of the Blackwater -- I, personally, really liked Bywater, but he turned-out to be a throw-away character unworthy of a TV adaptation; and, the Stannis/Melisandre thing may've never been expressly laid-out in the books, but it was hinted at. How else would she be pregnant with his shadow babies twice in upcoming situations? Also, the books are told through POVs, of which we get none for either of them until several books later, so how could we have seen it?

I must say I did rather miss the playful banter that marked Theon's initial meeting with Asha (Yara in the show) from the book, though. It wouldn't've hurt a bit to leave that dialogue in there.

Lved, loved, loved Pyke, by the way! Pretty much exactly as it was described in the books. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#38 Mya Stone

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:43 PM

my problem with craster doming Jon is.. wheres Ghost??


Hunting for food? Playing poker with Dolorous Edd? Drooling over Craster's wives/daughters unnoticed? /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#39 koftroy

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:44 PM

I will write more later....but there were a few changes I did not like
I still have a problem with Jon being portrayed as belligerent and following Craster? WHERE IS GHOST? I know we saw him once, but Ghost being by Jon's side is a key element of his character . He should have been sitting next to Jon when Sam came over. Also Jon is not disobedient at this point, he is doing his thing....here they show him as easily aggravated, but he does act like Ned, in giving Craster the evil eye, judging! The thing Jaime Lannister hated sbouy Ned....he was all judgey. He also really needs to find out what is going on with the boys. Maybe it is part of the hurt he still feels as being a Bastard they did that?

I saw the need to introduce an Other at this point, as we always knew C is a dirtbag. I know they only have 10 episodes. But they could have just doubled that scene in the book when Jon goes into the woods to look for Ghost and finds Dragonglass next to the body of the dead Ranger.

Stannis & Melissandre? We all knew that was going on. But when I re-read the books, I felt Stannis was not so much under her spell, but was using it to differentiate himself. Davos was great and they really aged his son up!

Cersei is finally acting like Cersei! They waste screen time with all that Brothel crap....that could have been using to see more NW.

Also Arya was awesome, and Jaqen Hagar...I know I can't spell it. He was kind of sexy actually.

Arya telling Gendry who she really is? I am not sure about that and she has gotten so much taller.
That is it for now...

Raakharo dying? He is there throughout all the books, like her Silver. Jorah's love for Dany is creepy in the book. Here it looks kind of hot

#40 CrypticWeirwood

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:47 PM

Speaking of Stannis's heir, was I the only one saddened by the confirmation of Shireen's nonexistence?

We don’t know that. She isn’t a son. It only said Selse had given Stannis no sons, that they were all stillborn. Shireen isn’t a son. She might still exist. Who knows? Time will tell.



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