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[Book Spoilers] Saan


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62 replies to this topic

#21 ManyFacedOne

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:47 PM

The guy who played him is great. One of my favorite parts of the episode.

#22 Arrogant Bastard

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:45 PM

I'm sure there are a few Summer Islanders or Sothyros dudes in Lys. But Saan is Lyseni, it's his ethnicity. And the Lyseni are no more black than the English.

And it matters for the sake of consistent world-building. I don't know if you've read ADwD or not, so I won't get into, but consistent world-building is key for certain theories to function.


That's true of the books, but the show is never going to go into the ethnic details of the Lyseni; probably 95% of viewers don't even know what or where Lys is. Saan's ethnic background is of very minor importance in the books, and of no importance for the show. Other than being black, the character is pretty much the same and serves the same function, so a name change is hardly necessary, at least in my opinion.

#23 Holmes

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:17 PM

Frankly, I've always viewed him as being black, just on the way he spoke. Straight out of the Caribbean, imo.

That being so, I felt he hit a homer with the role. Even if Lysenes are supposed to be Valyrian-looking.

He really should be a follower of R'hllor, though.

#24 Envie

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

Wait, did they say he was Lyseni in the show? I thought they omitted that so it wouldn't matter if he was black or white or any other color - just that he's a pirate friend to Davos. I know it matters more in the book, but for the short period of time Saan is in the series, I don't think it matters that much at all.

This is one of the places I think most people like / agree with the character portrayal changes. I actually always envisioned him black / islander too.

#25 Anasûrimbor Jön

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:44 PM

Wait, did they say he was Lyseni in the show?


Yes.

#26 Delmas

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:14 PM

I freaking loved him!!! /drool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drool:' />

#27 Many and More

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:52 AM

I would have liked them to have change his name, since he represents a different character unconnected with the history of the Saan family in the novels (and there is a history that hasn't been made explicit in the books)...


Ooo, so were the Saans vassals/relatives of the Targaryens? Or Blackfyres? My poor brain is overflowing with speculation after that little spoiler!

#28 The hairy bear

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:49 AM

Why can't he be both black, and from Lys...?


Because in the Free City of Lys the Valyrian ancestry is strong, and fair skin and eyes are a distinctive trait. In the books, a character is described as having "the blue eyes and flaxen hair of Lys." And all the characters we've seen from there (Doreah and Saan) have those traits.

And does it really matter?

Well, to some people yes, at least. Mainly those who care for not only the story per se, but also the worldbuilding. I know I would kill to know how the father of Jahaerys I was named or why the Manderlys fled the from the Reach. It's part of my enjoyment when reading the books. For those of us who care, I'd have been a nice gesture to rename the character and make him from the Summer Islands (or casting an actor with the Lysene traits).

Also, depending on the developments of future books and if the show continues for many seasons, it might generate a plot problem. Saan isn't likely to become a main character, but some theories supporting the fake Aegon VI thesis suggest that his mother would be Lyseni (explaining his features, and also consistent with Magister Illyrio having traveled to pleasure houses in Lys, where he bought Doreah).

Edited by The hairy bear, 11 April 2012 - 06:11 AM.


#29 Ran

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:53 AM

Salladhor Saan on the show is from the Summer Isles in origin. ;)

Spoiler


#30 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:07 AM

The part was very well played. It became a character you instantly got attached to through body language and accent.

Because the in the Free City of Lys the Valyrian ancestry is strong, and fair skin and eyes are a distinctive trait. In the books, a character is described as having "the blue eyes and flaxen hair of Lys." And all the characters we've seen from there (Doreah and Saan) have those traits.

But since the Free Cities are rich in trade it wouldn't just be the native people living there so someone from Lys should be able to have any skin color. It just removes his place as the "stereotypical" Lysene.

That's of course a moot point after Ran's post though.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 11 April 2012 - 05:08 AM.


#31 Ghyran

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:23 AM

I'd always imagined him as arabic looking, but I loved this take on him. Really liked the dialect, I hope they'll be showing alot more of him. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#32 Ser Lepus

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:36 AM

Ah, nowhere. Maybe the original GoT RPG from Guardians of Order, perhaps, but probably not there either. I think I have it in the World of Ice and Fire, but we'll see if it stays.

I´ve checked, and the old RPG from Guardians of Order doesn´t mention Sallador Saam, so I´ll have to either wait for the World of Ice and Fire or kidnap and take hostage your cat or something like that, in order to know....

#33 Chelly

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

I thought he was so much fun. I really enjoyed what little scene he had and it really brightened the mood of an otherwise dark and heavy episode. Hell, most episodes of GoT are pretty darn heavy(part of why I love it!), so its nice to get some fun time with a genuinely entertaining character and actor. I dig his accent, his mannerisms, and his line deliveries are spot on. I particularly liked him clarifying to Matthos that he planned on banging Cersei not raping her and that he can be very convincing. Heheh. I'm looking forward to more Saan and his wonderful exchanges with Davos.

#34 Robin Of House Hill

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:46 PM

I think the casting for Saan is perfect. Changing the name would have bothered me far more than his skin color not matching the book. He's fun to watch.

#35 Lebronn Jaime

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:58 PM

Anyone have an excerpt explicitly stating what Salladhor's skin color is? I realize he's from Lys, proof of that is not what I am asking for.

#36 Many and More

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:50 PM

Salladhor Saan on the show is from the Summer Isles in origin. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


And book Salladhor Saan is a Secret Targaryen! Heh, sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself.

I guess it's no secret that a guy who calls his ship Valyrian probably has family roots in Old Valyria. I wonder if he will turn out to be a Targ loyalist in the end? Valyrian would make a nice flagship for Dany's eventual return to Westeros, wouldn't it?

Back on topic, I liked the actor who portrayed Saan in the show. He is very charismatic and did a good job with the dialogue he was given.

#37 The Bastard of Bolton

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:43 PM

Salladhor Saan on the show is from the Summer Isles in origin. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Spoiler


I am happy to hear this Ran.
I'm with the other dude who said that the subject of race matters in terms of world building.
So if I did not mistake your message can it be safe to assume
Spoiler


#38 Towel

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:32 AM

I always imagined most of the free cities (especially the ones with slave trades) as closer to south american/ carribean type cities (or at least running cities like that). Having family that are brazilian by way of portugual that run that gamut from ginger to "so black they are blue" as the summer islanders are, saan being black made perfect sense to me.

#39 Ser Lepus

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:34 PM

I always imagined most of the free cities (especially the ones with slave trades) as closer to south american/ carribean type cities (or at least running cities like that). Having family that are brazilian by way of portugual that run that gamut from ginger to "so black they are blue" as the summer islanders are, saan being black made perfect sense to me.

South America and Caribbean have people with a lot of different skin tones, but until recently the upper classes were all light skinned, since they didn´t intermarried with native americans or freedmen, and the (high-class) qartheen seem every inch as chauvinist, xenophobic and racist as any colonial-era european; I doubt a foreigner would be allowed to join the upper levels of their society (like Xaro) especially is he isn´t able to "pass" as a native qartheen.
We know less about Lys, but they seem culturally close to the Volantiene, and the volantene are both classist (only the descendants of the valyrians can rule, ex - slaves can´t vote...etc.) and seem enamoured of their valyrian past.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 12 April 2012 - 04:11 PM.


#40 The Bastard of Bolton

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

South America and Caribbean have people with a lot of different skin tones, but until recently the upper classes were all light skinned, since they didn´t intermarried with native americans or freedmen, and the (high-class) qartheen seem every inch as chauvinist, xenophobic and racist as any colonial-era european; I doubt a foreigner would be allowed to join the upper levels of their society (like Xaro) especially is he isn´t able to "pass" as a native qartheen.
We know less about Lys, but they seem culturally close to the Volantiene, and the volantene are both classist (only the descendants of the valyrians can rule, ex - slaves can vote...etc.) and seem enamoured of their valyrian past.


I'd say that this is a subjective assessment. From what I remember I do not recall overt racism in ASOIAF, if there is contempt between cultures and peoples in the books it is usually if they are peasants, bastards, or wildings.

I'll admit that it seems to be human nature for societies to make groups of them and us in their minds, but Qarth might have been rewritten as a free city of merchants from all reaches of the world with a primary focus on trade rather than ethnicity?