145 replies to this topic

[CrypticWeirwood]

Lord Hodor, on 10 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Right, and the rest of the world cares because? Did the british edition of the books come with a different name?

Names are names. They are what they are, not for changing purposes. Unless its a different alphabet and therefore unppronouncable it shouldn`t be changed.

Huh?  A different alphabet doesn’t make something unpronounceable. I haven’t the least problem in the world pronouncing  Σίσυφος, Ἀχιλλεύς, or Ὀδυσσεύς.

And what are you talking about by saying “names are names”?  Readers quickly discern similar but different spellings seen frequently, but listeners will not quickly distinguish words that sound very close when spoken (and heard comparatively seldom!) on the screen without any lexical clues.  

This has nothing to do with spellings, but only with  pronunciations, which always follow the speaker’s accent.   Sounds matter, not letters. It’s having the same sounds that makes them nearly indistinguishable quasi-homophones.   They cannot use the American pronunciations, because those would make no sense in a show whose native speakers all have British pronunciations.

Notice how Viserys pronounced “dynasty” as U.K. /ˈdɪnəstɪ/ in the show rather than as U.S. /ˈdaɪnəstɪ/.  They had to use the British pronunciation there. It would have been inauthentic to use  twangy American pronunciations, which means they would have been stuck   with the near-homophones /ˈɑːʃə/ and /ˈɒːʃə/ .  No one would have heard the difference, because the rounding of the open back rounded vowel  /ɒ/ is the only think that distinguishes it from from the open back unrounded vowel /ɑ/. Roundedness is a trait that varies between speakers, and it simply would not have come across as sufficiently distinctive.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood, 10 April 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Lord Hodor]

What I mean by Names are names is, if my name is Rob, I wouldnt want to be called Harris somewhere else because Rob may be confused with Robbin.

I`m not arguing the pronunciation is different, im arguing that similar or not, it should not be changed, it`s a person`s name, you dont have to like it, just go with it.

[CrypticWeirwood]

It’s simple, really: Names that were different for readers should not suddenly become the same for listeners. If they hadn’t changed them, they would have.  The author gave the two characters different names; it would have been wrong for the screenwriters to change that and give them now the same names.  

So of course they didn’t.  They made sure the two characters still had different names.

[Hyper]

Travy1991, on 10 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

I actually hate those fans that complain over minor details but changing Asha's name just irks me to no end. I know it's only a name but for a character who plays a fairly major role in the book series, it sort of strips some of the character from her when they change her name. Maybe I'm naive but when an author gives a character a name, I believe it means something and taking that away sort of tarnishes things a bit for me. Of course, I won't give up on the show or the character over a name change (by the way, I like the actress...it's a bit too early to tell but I think she can really grow into the role) but I just would rather call her by her book name because the show name changes nothing, it only insults the audiences intelligence.

Don't be ridiculous. A name is just a name. The only meaning it has is what YOU have assigned to it. It is not intrinsic to the character itself.

Asha - Yara - Whatever. It is a good character. The name is a *minor detail*. If the portrayal of the character is up to par (and it seems to be so far), few will care.

Edited by Hyper, 10 April 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[White Raven]

Travy1991, on 10 April 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I refuse to call the TV character Yara. There is no reason for changing that character's name...if you're a fan of GOT or ASOIAF...then you have a big enough attention span so as not to confuse Asha and Osha. This isn't a show for the casual viewer. I'm going to refer to Gemma Whelan's character as Asha regardless of what she's called on TV.

This.
A casual viewer probably wouldn't know Osha's name anyway. And I can't remember: Was Osha ever adressed by her name in the series?

[Lord Hodor]

CrypticWeirwood, on 10 April 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

It’s simple, really: Names that were different for readers should not suddenly become the same for listeners. If they hadn’t changed them, they would have.  The author gave the two characters different names; it would have been wrong for the screenwriters to change that and give them now the same names.  

So of course they didn’t.  They made sure the two characters still had different names.

Like they did with Jon Snow and Jon Arryn right?

[ManyFacedOne]

You have to know her name! They told us she was Yara, but that was a lie. Her name is Asha.

[The Black Wolf]

Lord Hodor, on 10 April 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Like they did with Jon Snow and Jon Arryn right?

I think the point CrypticWeirwood is trying to make is that, for instance, Jon Snow and Jon Arryn did have the same name in the book, but Osha and Asha didn't. And while the names are perfectly distinguishable in writing, they might not be when heard spoken by a character on the TV show. Apart from the possibility of it being confusing to the average viewer, this would probably raise some questions, like: why does a character from north of The Wall have the same name as a character from the Iron Islands?

I don't particularly like the change, but it doesn't really bother me either...

Edited by The Black Wolf, 10 April 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Maester Bater]

ManyFacedOne, on 10 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

You have to know her name! They told us she was Yara, but that was a lie. Her name is Asha.

"It is," my sister had said, so softly that I was afraid that she might cry.

[Envie]

Tourniquet, on 10 April 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

It's funny because we barely ever heard Osha called Osha. They could have changed her name this season and none would be the wiser...

This.

I'm not sure what producer's meeting got together and decided it would be a better idea to change Asha to Yara (which sounds like a stupid name IMO) than to change Osha to something else. In most readers / fans opinion, Asha's role in the story is pretty significant. While yes, Osha does accompany Bran and Rickon north beyond the wall, I don't feel she's as politically an important character and her name could have been easier to change without as much confusion or fan criticism.

[howland_reed]

I think the confusion will come when Theon returns to Winterfell and will obviously confront and probably try and bed Osha.  At that point, I can understand why producers feel she needs a different sounding name from Theon's sister.

My main problem with the name change is not the name change itself, but that Yara is just so phonetically different that it's hard to accept.  It also sounds softer and more feminine, I dunno, which doesn't really suit Asha's character.  I would've been fine with a change if they at least chose a name that's at least similar sounding to Asha.  Why not Ashara?  Or even Aisha?  Or why not just Ashe, which is more androgynous, but could still be used for females?

Yara sucks.

[Giskard Reventlov]

Yeah, Yara sucks big time and it surely would be better if they have changed Osha's name who is minor character in the books compared to Asha.

[turdle]

i couldn't care less about the name change. what i was disappointed with was the fact that she shows none of the wit that asha has.  granted, it's such a short time frame that they used, but the whole turn on for theon in the book, is how witty asha is.  when i asked my girlfriend what she thought of her, her only response was "gross."  especially after show craster and his daughters just last week, i get the feeling that a lot of people are just going to assume the greyjoys are into incest, as opposed to asha allowing theon to make a fool of himself.

[Leto Atreides]

Crown, on 10 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

It was awkward when Balon called her Yara, even though I knew he would. Also, I expected her to be prettier, but that's just my imagination.

Me too, I was a bit suprised by how plain she looked. I was expecting her to be prettier since in the book, Theon doesn't recognize her because she has turned into such a beautiful women while he had memories of an ugly duckling.

[Awesome Oberyn Martell]

It's not even a problem if the names sound the same though. Most people would learn quickly enough that Osha and Asha are different characters by how they look and their different interactions with Theon.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

I love the books and I love the show.  But they are separate entities and although name changes etc are a bit irritating they're nothing worse than that.

However, I don't understand why they changed Asha's name and not Osha's.  As Asha is a POV character from the books she will, most likely, be in the show a lot more than Osha.  

And I agree that Yara is so similar to Arya that the whole name change seems a little pointless.

[JW.]

Leto Atreides, on 10 April 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Me too, I was a bit suprised by how plain she looked. I was expecting her to be prettier since in the book, Theon doesn't recognize her because she has turned into such a beautiful women while he had memories of an ugly duckling.

I suspect the make up is the reason, the actress headshots and other google pictures she is actually quite cute. I had hoped they would have kept the shorter hair in though, as Asha has in the books.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

I thought they've cast her well, though.  She was pretty good in the scenes she was in and I can see her being a convincing sea captain.  I look forward to seeing more of her

[Dr. Pepper]

CrypticWeirwood, on 10 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

You Americans don’t understand, because the American pronunciations of Asha and Osha are so far apart, and you aren’t used to un-American accents. But the British pronunciations are quite close:

• Asha: U.S. /ˈæʃə/, U.K. /ˈɑːʃə/
  
• Osha: U.S. /ˈɔːʃə/, U.K. /ˈɒːʃə/

Sure, TV audiences would hear the difference between /ˈæʃə/ and /ˈɔːʃə/ in a trice, because what you do with your mouth for the initial sounds of both words is so far apart.

  But they aren’t using American accents in this show! They’re using (various) U.K. accents.  And nobody is going to hear a big difference between /ˈɑːʃə/ and /ˈɒːʃə/ — because there really isn’t one.  Those are nearly identical.

See the problem at last?  It’s obvious, really.

And no, Arya and Yara are not close together at all.

It's not obvious, really.  For one, name pronunciation guides are fairly meaningless.  I've heard the name Asha pronounced a half dozen different ways by Americans, Brits, and Australians alike.  People will pronounce it as they will pronounce it.  Second, there are vast regional variations with vowel pronunciation.  The vowels of people from Leeds do not always sound like the vowels of people from London.  Further, the show is not using either pronunciation of Osha you listed above.  This part of your argument does not apply.

Yara does sound like Arya...depending on how it's pronounced.  Both Sansa and Arya are given numerous pronunciations on the show and sometimes the same actor pronounces these names two different ways in the same scene!  Now that was initially confusing.  The most startling pronunciation for Arya I've heard has come from Cat.  When she says the name, it sounds very similar to the way Theon says Yara.

The Black Wolf offered one of the most reasonable explanations for the name change; how to explain that a character from north of the wall has a similar name to a character from the iron islands. I can agree with that reason for changing the name.

But it still begs the question of why they chose Yara!  Why not Ashaon?  Why not Allanys or Gwynesse after other women from the Iron Islands?  Why not Esgred, the name Asha uses to deceive Theon?  Does the name Yara have some sort of significance or was it just some humorous play with anagrams?

[PatrickStormborn]

Ser Ilyn, on 10 April 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I love the books and I love the show.  But they are separate entities and although name changes etc are a bit irritating they're nothing worse than that.

However, I don't understand why they changed Asha's name and not Osha's.  As Asha is a POV character from the books she will, most likely, be in the show a lot more than Osha.  

Not really. I doubt Asha will be in many episodes this season, whereas it looks like Osha has a fairly large role in the Winterfell story.

Quote

And I agree that Yara is so similar to Arya that the whole name change seems a little pointless.

The difference is that Theon is not interacting with both Yara and Arya. He is, however, going to be interacting with both Osha and Asha.