176 replies to this topic

[Lord Varys]

There are tons of interesting things for Littlefinger to do besides talking to whores. They could give us another scene with him and Varys, discussing Tyrion, Joffrey, Cersei, and the war. They could expand on Littlefinger's thoughts on Tyrion and the whole dagger thing. This will be a theme in the next episode, I know, but people might have forgotten that Littlefinger was responsible for Tyrion's troubles in season 1.

They could show us Littlefinger embezzling the Crown, selling offices in the treasury to the highest bidder. They could us give the first somewhat intimate Littlefinger-Sansa-scene. They even could us give a Littlefinger-Joffrey-scene. To give us a glimpse that Littlefinger has some influence over Joffrey. Showing us Ros shows us nothing.

[Sci-2]

Catastrophe, on 09 April 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Oh, and while it's not really a big deal, I thought the scene where Littlefinger wipes some "fluids" off the whore's mouth was disgusting. I hate to sound like a prude, but I do NOT want to see that level of sexual content on Game of Thrones. HBO went too far with that one.

I thought this was incredibly unnecessary as well.

[brashcandy]

Lord Varys, on 09 April 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

There are tons of interesting things for Littlefinger to do besides talking to whores. They could give us another scene with him and Varys, discussing Tyrion, Joffrey, Cersei, and the war. They could expand on Littlefinger's thoughts on Tyrion and the whole dagger thing. This will be a theme in the next episode, I know, but people might have forgotten that Littlefinger was responsible for Tyrion's troubles in season 1.

They could show us Littlefinger embezzling the Crown, selling offices in the treasury to the highest bidder. They could us give the first somewhat intimate Littlefinger-Sansa-scene. They even could us give a Littlefinger-Joffrey-scene. To give us a glimpse that Littlefinger has some influence over Joffrey. Showing us Ros shows us nothing.

I have to disagree. I think this scene was incredibly vital to showing us the kind of man Littlefinger truly is. He doesn't simply make a living off women like some happy go lucky brothel owner, he exploits them and really doesn't give a shit past his bottom line. This gets to the heart of the man's character, and establishes for tv viewers just why his relationship with Sansa will be so dangerous for the girl. With HBO already running the risk of glamorising prostitution via the brothel sex scenes, I think this part was extremely useful in showing the seedy underbelly, and how men like LF make a profit whilst seliing these girls to the highest bidder.

[brashcandy]

dannister, on 09 April 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Yeah, you're right.  She wouldn't be doing both.  And I just can't imagine LF spending his days in his brothels scaring the whores, lol.  For one thing, too trivial for him, and another - if he DID spend his days doing that (micro-managing his brothels), he would probably actually be nice or something - try to genuinely cheer her up.

Spoiler

Is this the same LF who takes Jeyne Poole to be "trained" in one of his brothels, then hands her over to the Lannisters to be sent to Ramsay Bolton, looks at Sansa in a way that makes the girl feel like she has no clothes on, and later on pushes his wife through a moon door?

LF doesn't "cheer" women up, and he certainly wouldn't bother doing so with a prostitute. I think the scene was spot on. The man is a predator and extremely creepy. This scene doesn't necessarily show him micro-managing his business, he's just being a smart investor and checking on his "property" after the baby killing incident. I think it's exactly the kind of thing LF would say to a prostitute. Coming off at first as nice and caring, and then revealing that callous, sinister side.

Edited by brashcandy, 09 April 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[Keep Shelly in Athens]

Just a monetary investment is the explicit way to read it. However, the implicit reading established how he needs "happy" whores to do their work so he can do his work spying on patrons to get knowledge (it's power, remember?) of pertinent information from their sexposition. Also, the "sincerity of prostitutes" is a theme from the books, so I didn't see it as a complete waste of time (although it would be lost on new viewers). ETA: there was also a nice parallel between Varys/Littlefinger who were both making threats to hired women in this ep.

Edited by Keep Shelly in Athens, 10 April 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Honey Badger]

Ros as exposition with Littlefinger got fairly heavy handed last season, especially with the two women touching each other while LF pontificated about the realm.  I do like this scene though.  Goes to show that his exclusivity agreement with Ros is really an arrangement with property, and Ros is locked in.  If she tries to leave, I expect LF will kindly slit her throat for her.  I think some of you guys forget how easy it is to kill someone inside the city walls.  Slavery being banned in Westeros doesn't mean much.

Ros having some compassion for the children gives her a little more complexity.  Overall, other than Esme Bianco being incredibly hot, I hope she eventually crosses LF and he shows her it was a big mistake coming to King's Landing.

[Dr. Pepper]

mrkorb, on 09 April 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Who do we know that has a lot of money?  What rather mysterious beautiful and smart girl was rather recently discovered in the war camp of somebody who has a lot of money?  I think this mystery whore that he was talking about is Shae, and she was bought by Tywin Lannister.  Let's not forget where Shae ends up.

As for transforming her, we know Varys has his informers, and Baelish has his informers, and Cersei has hers, so why not Tywin?  His instruction to Tyrion that he not bring her to court, he has to know that Tyrion will rebel at that.  So now Shae is Tywin's person on the inside, maybe not as inside as he would like, but at the very least she's there when he isn't and might have a way to send him information on what Tyrion is up to.

I think you have a pretty valid theory.  We know from the books that Tywin is the one who probably created the tunnels to Chataya's brothel.  In the show, Bronn said he took the girl from some guys tent but never says who.  But then Varys tells Tyrion that Shae says she was 'working in Tywin's kitchens'.  We know in the books that Shae must have had some sort of relationship with Tywin because she was in his bed.  Last season we saw Shae get very upset when prodded about her past.

Your theory on who the mystery whore is holds up pretty well with all of this information.

[Mrs.Stark]

I don't feel like that scene was necessary at all. I think it's  been pretty evident what type of character LF is throughout the show, even if you haven't read the books. My husband has not read the books and during the scene with LF and Cersei he blurted out "Oh, huge mistake!" He pretty much figures LF is going to come back with a vengeance and prove his point about where the power really lies. I don't think the scene with Ros really added all that much because most of the audience has a fair idea of how devious LF is, even if they haven't seen all he can do yet. Having said that, I'm not outraged by the scene either. It was an ok moment but nothing special.

[Davos55]

Dr. Pepper and mrkorb: I also definitely got a vibe that the story he was telling had a greater purpose than just showing Little Finger's malicious side (which is well established so far). I like your theory about it being about Shae and Tywin, I think that is very interesting and it actually makes a lot of sense. The books don't go into why Shae was in Tywin's bed when she met her doom, and I figured the show would definitely flesh that out more. The scene from last season with Bronn, Tyrion and Shae playing the "lying game", definitely showed that she was hiding something and she got very defensive. I am curious to see where the show goes with the whole Tywin and Shae storyline!

As far as the scene itself, I believe it was a decent one overall, and it may have some implications later on. My theory is that after this, Ros will really want to please Little Finger, and she will become an efffective "little bird" for him. I don't believe D&D would put this much time into a non book character if she wasn't going to play a bigger role later that will have some more ramifications on the plot. Little Finger is one of my favorite characters in the novels for sure, and while the show version definitely deviates from my personal vision of him, he is still very intriguing, and I like to see any scene with him in it. I hope there will be more scenes with him and Sansa, him and Varys, and him and Joffrey one on one.

PS. I really hope the show starts to show more of Sandor Clegane. He is definitely one of my favorites in the novels, and he hasn't gotten nearly enough time on the series yet.

[Sound_of_winter]

I'm too lazy to read through the thread so i am sorry if this has been said a bunch of times: i found the whole whore house scene to be stupid, first off way too much sex following Theon's scene, wiping the girl's face was just   The viewers already know Little Finger is a crazy scheming little shit, so why show what an ass hat he is again? Although, someone did mention in another thread that it seemed like he was talking about Qyburn when he talked about a man buying a lyense whore.

[Elundin]

Ok, I felt the entire brothel scene was unnecessary. We already know he earns his living off whorehouses, we already know he's bad (though, I will disagree on that characterization, he is not bad). So, unless the producers felt some more naked skin was needed, I don't see any usefulness in it.

[Woman of War]

Actually I like the actress playing Ros, she is far better than she was allowed to show in the first season.
But then I want to see LF as sinister politician, and not only as devious and creepy. He is imo not the unpredictable sociopath like Joffrey, he is a calculating, clever and ruthless businessman. Though he has two weaknesses: his planned revenge on the High Lords and Ladies who looked down on him when he was still a decent boy and his infatuation with Sansa. The precise nature of that relationship has not yet been truly established in the books and I do not like it if in the show they try to characterize LF as ultimately evil before time, it takes out interesting ambiguity.

Edited by Woman of War, 10 April 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[gmoney88]

I didn't mind the idea in it of itself...I just hope this Ros story is actually serving a purpose.

Really though, the scene was ludicrously long. If you include the whole brothel sequence, it was like 10 minutes! its crazy for a show so pressed for time!

[Hear Us Roar]

I did not mind it

[The Third Reed]

It was a complete waste of time.

Littlefinger this season has allowed himself to talk himself into a humiliation by Cersei, and has pointlessly frightened the day-to-day administrator of one of his seemingly most important brothels. He is being dumbed-down for no real reason.

[Thaune]

I didn't like the scene, there were better ways of giving us more insight into LF's head.

That said, people here need to remember, this is Game of Thrones, the TV show.

Most viewers have no idea what's about to happen next, that Ros doesn't exist in the books, etc etc.

You have to view the show as a separate product.

I thought season 1 was dead on and stuck to the books 99% of the time, and these two episodes in season 2 much less so.
But it might be necessary as your average HBO viewer is not your average GoT reader, they need to attract both types.

[lacuna]

IDK... Felt out of character for me. Sure, LF is ruthless and conniving, but why make someone inside your organization a potential enemy, feeding them reasons to hate your guts, when you can make a "friend", all at the cost of a simple lie and a false show of compassion? He gave her the day off anyway.

Governing through fear should be Cersei's domain.

[redriver]

It was a repulsive scene ,with a palpable sense of evil about it.But I think that was by design,just as GRRM includes repulsive scenes in his books.

The only saving note was that Roz appears more human.

The Lysene whore and cutomer could be Illyrio and future wife.

Edited by redriver, 10 April 2012 - 03:46 AM.

[David Selig]

I didn't mind this scene, but I would certainly preferred to see LF working as master of Coin (something we don't get in the books and it could show how much he's embezzling (if any), how he increased the revenues of the crown so much) or pulling off some elaborate plot. This scene achieved its goal to show he's a ruthless bastard, but the same thing could've been done in a more interesting way, and it's not like many viewers had illusions about him after the way he used his supposed great love Catelyn in S1.

Edited by David Selig, 10 April 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Isis]

gmoney88, on 10 April 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

I didn't mind the idea in it of itself...I just hope this Ros story is actually serving a purpose.

Really though, the scene was ludicrously long. If you include the whole brothel sequence, it was like 10 minutes! its crazy for a show so pressed for time!

Agreed. I didn't hate it but I didn't think much of it either. And I don't find myself feeling any sympathy toward Ros because she sniffled a bit. How are we to know they were real tears anyway? We've not seen much compassion in her before, so I remain unconvinced/uncaring.

So, yes, this scene is bearable if it has a greater purpose. Otherwise I am just bored of Ros and becoming irritated by the way LF is being portrayed in the show. Please can we see him do some more stuff outside of the brothels?