Queen of Winter, on 15 April 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:
Well, once Petyr finished using Lysa to further his own game, she was toast. To be honest, I think he was rather disgusted with her (and by her). He obviously found her lacking when he compared her to Catelyn.
Regarding Petyr kissing Sansa, I don't feel it was planned. I think he had one of those "slips" (similar to what Lysa was doing, thinking Sansa was Catelyn). I don't know if it will happen, but I can see later on in the story Petyr going off the deep end, confusing Sansa with Catelyn. Perhaps it won't be exactly how it was with Lysa, but I believe it might happen.
However that kiss might be part of Petyr's undoing, and a mistake on his part. It will be interesting to see if that kiss comes up again later, in some way. You can't tell me that one of the servants didn't see it and set tongues to wagging. It might get them talking, wondering if this Alayne is really LF's daughter.
Yes, I agree!
I think LF's plans were years in the making actually, that one way or another he would take his revenge against the people who denied him the things he most wanted. He definitely had it in for the Stark's and the Tully's from the start, then added Jon Arryn into the mix.
Well, if UnGregor winds up being killed at some point, there are the Clegane lands, and their keep in the Westerlands. Not sure if Sandor will want it, as it probably holds bad memories for him and he hasn't been back there since he left home at 12 y/o. But like you said, he might do something "in battle" that might earn him a reward and "elevate" him to a higher social level. I think some of how Sandor ends up, depends on what happens regarding Rorge and Biter masquerading as him, committing atrocities along the Saltpans, wearing his infamous dog helm. (Side note--Wonder if he'll get the helm back, or decide to melt it down or something and construct a new one, to better match his "new lease on life".
) Is Sandor going to be held responsible for their actions? Who will speak on his behalf, in his defense? The Elder Brother? And Sandor had the gold from the Hand's Tourney , however that was taken from him by Dondarrion. (He was given an IOU for it but gave it to the riverboat captain as payment for crossing the river, saying he'd be back for his "change" later
Edited to add: You know, I was also thinking that if Robbs Will comes to light, and it's known that Sansa was disinherited, she's may not be "worth" all that much to any of her former suitors who wanted her only for her claim. Other men might desire her because she's pretty, and yes, she comes from a noble family, but that family has been branded traitors, she was accused of regicide, etc.(Though I do expect her to be cleared for that --or I hope!). Yes, I know LF wants her for his twisted plans.
But in the end I think the only person she might have real
worth to would be Sandor. So, if she essentially has nothing (no lands, etc) at the end, perhaps he might not need to have tons of land or money to be worthy of her.
Sansa has certainly been disinherited from Winterfell, and I expect Sansa as a nobly born lady to accept Robb's reasoning behind her disinheritance.
But this does not mean that Sansa should spend the rest of her life hiding in the Fingers (under the control of Harry the Heir) or the Clegane Lands (under the Lannisters
If the Starks have any brains then the Boltons are going to be listening to a Northern rendition of the Reynes of Castamere, I would say that Sansa, having been disinherited, would be the most likely choice for new Liege Lady of the Dreadfort, and a sufficiently heroic Sandor would be the most likely liege lord, and Sandor would be a pretty good choice for new Liege Lord, if he proved sufficiently heroic.
I think Sandor and Sansa would enjoy status/power (important in Westeros) property (important before the industrial revolution) but most importantly the love and family relationship with their liege lord (Rickon).
Something that wouldn't be possibly either in the Fingers or Clegane lands.
Christina Ceriddwynn, on 15 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:
I personally DO think Sansa should stay Alayne Stone and live on the Fingers or somewhere....maybe with Sandor....
but unlike many views, I don't see this as a permanent course of action for her but rather as a....for the moment...thing.
As in....stay out of sight until the Lannisters get their arses kicked for good, the wars are over and it is "safe" for Sansa ro re-emerge and THEN claim her place in Winterfell.
As of right now, she can't be queen as Bran and Rickon are fully alive and come before her in regards to Winterfell. The whole Robb and Jon thing is still up in the air as well. But it doesn't mean it has to stay that way.
A couple of years though.....could definitely be prudent.
Rickon is the heir (I would say that having read this book
, male primogeniture is better than the alternative...) and Bran has certainly disinherited himself by his choice of profession.
I would say that kicking back in the Fingers waiting for the Lannisters to die, then taking power from the rightful heir would probably indicate that Sansa wasn't worthy of being Lady of Winterfell (since she is too cowardly to fight the enemy but is willing to disinherit the rightful heir). Rather Sansa, having completed her education (and staying at the Fingers with Sandor would be a great gender studies practical application major, but this isn't quite necessary to be regent or Lady of Winterfell) and slain the Baelish Monster, should return and help Rickon rebuild Winterfell/The North.
Elba the Intoner, on 15 April 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:
Yeah Megara I don't think there is anyone on these boards who thinks Tyrion will be the valonqar, precisely because of the fact that Cersei thinks that is who it will be. Though, knowing the way GRRM works, he would make it Tyrion just because no one thinks it will be him.
Jaime is a much more significant possibility, but actually, there are many possibilities for valonqar. Sandor is a little brother after all. I just posted in another thread on whether Sandor may be the valonqar, about my theory on this and I'll repeat it here since it's come up. I don't think it will be Sandor. I hope he is learning to gentle his rage on the QI just as Sansa has prayed for. Also, if you think about what Maester Aemon said about the Valeryon language when he was talking to Sam about the Prince That Was Promised, Valeryon does not have genders. So, while he had always thought the Prince would be a boy, it could be a girl and he comes to believe it is Dany. This opens up the possibilities that any younger sister or brother could be the valonqar and my personal crackpot is that it will be Arya.
If GRRM was Nabokov or Tolkein then it would be good if Valonqar turned out to be Arya, since /ar/ is a masculine ending in Cornish, but since Valyrian is a gender neutral language, Cersei, who maybe a native Cornish speaker (Westerland's=West Country)... was merely confused and made a common grammatical mistake that many Westerlands speakers make when they learn Valyrian.
Edited by voodooqueen126, 15 April 2012 - 10:36 PM.