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[BOOK SPOPILERS] Craster Cliffhanger


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88 replies to this topic

#1 Howdyphillip

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:48 PM

I have been wanting to discuss this since I watched the episode last night. This was the first major plot change of the series so far, and I actually enjoyed it. For the first time since I started watching the series, I don't know what is going to happen. As long as they deviate from the books in a huge manner, I am OK with different outcomes of side stories.

Well, of course I know that it is not curtains for Jon Snow, but is this going to be the end of Craster? Is Gilly joining the crew now and venturing North? How are they going to do the Mormont death scene next season? I think that what will happen in the immediate future (next episode) is that Ghost is going to get him a hefty serving of Craster's ass tartar.

The only other thing that I wanted to mention was that I wish the shot of the Other taking the child would have been a bit more pronounced. I don't think it truly came across to the viewer exactly what was happening. The Other was mistaken for a wildling by the non book readers in my house.

Edited by Howdyphillip, 09 April 2012 - 10:17 PM.


#2 Chelly

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:20 PM

Well, it did have the bright blue eyes and was in the same getup like the one shown in the season premiere, but I can see how someone who only watches the show can mistake the other for a wildling. The Others were only shown very briefly in the first 14 minutes of the very first episode of the series and never shown again. I would like to see more of the Others because they are kept so shrouded and I really want to see what's so different about them from regular people.

I liked this scene, too. It wouldn't be right for tv viewers to have to wait like 2 seasons to finally find out what Craster was doing to his sons since its not a majorly direct plot point in Jon's story, by the time its revealed most people would have either forgotten or stopped caring. Its the why that is the real mystery, not the what. I have no problem with the show moving things along, especially the north of the wall story. I don't think Craster will die in the next episode, maybe he will just kick the NW out? I hope they don't kill Mormont right away since scenes were shown in the previews and extras with Mormont, Jon, and Qhorin walking together after they meet up.

I'm not sure about Gilly. I think she will be returning at the end of the season, if she doesn't come along. Maybe they will kill Mormont at the end of this season? /frown5.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':frown5:' />

#3 Envie

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:21 PM

At first, I was like "Crater? What crater?" but then I was like "oh... typo, duh!"

I watched a preview for coming episodes and it appears Craster's going to go back and confront Mormont and tell him to GTFO - and that may be the end of Craster scenes for this season. I can't imagine they're going to cram the Gilly stuff, along with Mormont's death all into one season to shave off such a huge part of the story on their adventures beyond the wall. Besides, I also saw cut scenes of them in the Fist, where the tall mountains and deep snow (filmed in Iceland) are displayed with such gorgeous filming, and Mormont's definitely in those scenes so he's not getting killed now.

As for the Other... there's only a brief moment you see its blue glowing eyes, but its definitely there. I could see how non book readers might get confused though as the figure had what appeared to be furs or rags on for clothing and that does seem more like a wildling than some mysterious magical creature.

#4 teemo

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:28 PM

I thought it was....odd. A made-up cliffhanger. Hmm. I'm assuming there is going to be some sort of drama and Craster is going to force them all out and Jon will barely get away with all of his limbs intact. It looks like Mormont may be defending Jon or something. And even though I think the point of the cliffhanger was to surprise people because "LOOK!! That's a white walker like we saw in S1E1!!!!" but instead people are like, "Huh? What is that? A wildling?" It would have made more sense if they just went from the book...Gilly telling Jon why she doesn't want to stay with Craster and tell him she saw the blue eyes.

And I think it was a "too convenient" type of moment. What are the chances that someone just had a baby and Craster just happened to run over to a White Walker near Jon - "here you go, enjoy!" Please, please.....I hope that it's not Gilly's baby and Jon goes over to save it.

Edited by dannister, 09 April 2012 - 10:33 PM.


#5 congokong

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:30 PM

I prefer the show to be as faithful to the book as possible. While it's cool to see the Others take a sacrifice, do you really think Craster is stupid enough to do it over the night that 200 Night's Watch are visiting? And whose baby is this now?

#6 The Faceless Bard

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

Yeah, making Craster more sly and stealthy then Jon snow is kind of a reach for me .... so I didnt like that scene at all.

#7 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:37 PM

Yeah, making Craster more sly and stealthy then Jon snow is kind of a reach for me .... so I didnt like that scene at all.

As Dolorous Edd pointed out, Craster does live out in the open untouched, while the other wildings are fleeing, while Nights watchmen and wildlings alike end up as wights.

#8 Envie

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:43 PM

It's written fairly plainly by the end of the Craster chapters of the book - you understand that Craster has a 'deal' going with the Others. He gives them plenty of boy babies (though I have no idea what they actually do with them) and in return, they leave him alone and free from attack. This is why he can afford to live out in the open and has no fear or need to run to the wildling refugee camps with Mance Rayder.

#9 DannySpud

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

People are saying it is a bit of a coincidence that someone had a baby right when the NW were there, I don't think it is. I think the baby was already around and Craster gave it to the Others to protect the NW. Then next episode I can imagine Jon telling Mormont, Mormont confronting Craster about it, Craster explaining, and Mormont being pissed. Then Craster kicks them out for being ungrateful.

#10 Mrs.Stark

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:30 AM

I have been wanting to discuss this since I watched the episode last night. This was the first major plot change of the series so far, and I actually enjoyed it. For the first time since I started watching the series, I don't know what is going to happen. As long as they deviate from the books in a huge manner, I am OK with different outcomes of side stories.

Well, of course I know that it is not curtains for Jon Snow, but is this going to be the end of Craster? Is Gilly joining the crew now and venturing North? How are they going to do the Mormont death scene next season? I think that what will happen in the immediate future (next episode) is that Ghost is going to get him a hefty serving of Craster's ass tartar.

The only other thing that I wanted to mention was that I wish the shot of the Other taking the child would have been a bit more pronounced. I don't think it truly came across to the viewer exactly what was happening. The Other was mistaken for a wildling by the non book readers in my house.


I'm also wondering what is going to happen now and I'm a bit excited to see what they've done with the story line, as long as it's nothing too drastic. I don't really understand why so many people were confused by the other. They had some pretty odd crackling noises while Jon was approaching the scene and then you see the outline of a pretty huge humanoid, who has really bright shining blue eyes. I thought it was pretty obvious and so did my husband (who didn't read the books). I guess for some people it wasn't that clear though, but I'm sure in the next episode it will become completely obvious what was going on.

#11 Dr. Pepper

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:42 AM

I felt so stupid after watching because I totally forgot that it was known that Craster gave his boy babies to the Others.

I wish we knew how long it was from when Gilly talks to Jon to when the baby is delivered to the Others. The cliffhanger for me was 'who's baby is that? Was it Gilly's?' We already know Jon is gonna be ok because HBO has shown a dozen trailers with Jon having a cut on his nose. I'm assuming they will use his time being knocked out expanding on the warg abilities.

#12 The Meeraculous Third Reed

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

Craster knocking out Jon was so pointless.

#13 Hear Us Roar

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:03 AM

Craster knocking out Jon was so pointless.

really considering we don't know what will happen next week, i am gonna hold off on judgement.

Deviataion from the books is inevitiable, and not necessarily bad. We could stay here all night nitpicking there differences from the book.

#14 David Selig

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:07 AM

I loved it. Craster made Jon his bitch again, what's not to like?

#15 The Last Dragon

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:13 AM

Craster knocking out Jon was so pointless.


Don't think it's pointless. Think it was a necessary moment to explain Jon's capability to warging in to Ghost. Can be that the show starts with a Wolf dream in the snow, and then Ghost finding a unconsciousness Jon.

#16 redriver

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:25 AM

One point I would like to make is that when you see a deviation from the books in the show,you should give it time to play out as a plot line before making a final judgement on whether it works or not.

#17 DannySpud

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:32 AM

One point I would like to make is that when you see a deviation from the books in the show,you should give it time to play out as a plot line before making a final judgement on whether it works or not.

Yeah, "Grr, Rhakaro had a moment with Dany. He is going to replace Daario, noooooo!!"

#18 Songlian

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:42 AM

Craster knocking out Jon was so pointless.


It seemed to me like one of those cheap tv-tricks to raise suspense. They can do better than this.

#19 hoelk

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:19 AM

It seemed to me like one of those cheap tv-tricks to raise suspense. They can do better than this.


I dont wanna sound like a troll, but bave you actually read the books? From what I remember every single chapter ends of a cheap cliffhanger.

Edited by hoelk, 10 April 2012 - 06:20 AM.


#20 K-Raptor

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:41 AM

I like how the show confirms things for book-readers that are not explicitly mentioned in the books (like Renly and Loras being gay). But the White Walker still looks nothing like a White Walker to me. It already looked like an Uruk-Hai with bright blue eyes in the pilot, and now it looks like some tall blue-eyed humanoid in rags.

And I don't think it's Gilly's baby. It's hard to see, but Gilly doesn't seem to have a big belly yet.

Edited by K-Raptor, 10 April 2012 - 06:42 AM.