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[Book Spoilers] Asha/Yara's Introduction scene


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9 replies to this topic

#1 howland_reed

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

This topic is not for complaints about Asha's name change, or the actress Gemma Whelan's physical appearance/likeness to Asha. Both are wrong imo, but I can deal with that so long as the actress portrays the character well.

I'd like to discuss instead the rushed introduction we got to Asha's character in episode 2. It's a real shame really because Asha's one of my favorite characters in the series and a large reason for that was the brilliant introduction we were given in ACoK. In one chapter, GRRM brought this bold, independent, playful yet seductive woman to life.

Lost in the translation to screen was the fact that book Asha was the one who came onto Theon, flirting with him shamelessly while pretending to be a shipwright's wife looking to be whisked away by the "lord of Pyke." Instead, what we were presented was mostly Theon groping her like the lecher he is. Yes, she did play along (for like 5 seconds of screen time), but for non-readers, the scene was more about Theon being Theon, rather than igniting their curiosity about who this woman was.

In the book, when she finally reveals herself as his sister, she does so at a feast and sits at a place of honor beside her father. The way she handles herself and the laughter she evokes from the other men when she belittles Theon also demonstrated the respect she had earned from her peers, despite her gender. We also lose great lines about her husband is her axe and her suckling babe is the dagger between her breasts.

Instead, on the show, the way she just stands beside her father makes her seem like some dutiful daughter who simply won his favor. Yes, Balon does talk about her successes, but television is a visual medium. I want to see that she has the respect of those under her command. I don't want to be told it. It's sad when a book does a better job of this.

This is why I particularly did not like the Littlefinger/Ros scene. It was actually a decent, well-acted scene, and much better than the infamous Littlefinger monologue from last season...but it was completely superfluous. It didn't really add any new character development. The five minutes wasted in the brothel could've been better used to flesh out the introduction of the Greyjoys, who are pretty significant characters from here on out.

Thoughts?

#2 TedStriker5150

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:24 PM

I agree with this 100%. You summed up my thoughts exactly. Especially the fact that she was the one who came on to him... she was pretty direct actually... It wasn't Theon who did the first groping... lol. This in itself, before anything else, sets up her character as a "just one of the guys" kind of girl.

A very memorable moment from the book that just seemed a bit rushed. But I guess you can't flesh everything out. It's just that as one of my personal favorite character introductions in the book, I would have liked to have seen more.

Edited by TedStriker5150, 20 April 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#3 The late lady stark

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

I think Yara was well cast. She's threatening, and dangerous.

#4 boojam

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:48 PM

This topic is not for complaints about Asha's name change, or the actress Gemma Whelan's physical appearance/likeness to Asha. Both are wrong imo, but I can deal with that so long as the actress portrays the character well.

I'd like to discuss instead the rushed introduction we got to Asha's character in episode 2. It's a real shame really because Asha's one of my favorite characters in the series and a large reason for that was the brilliant introduction we were given in ACoK. In one chapter, GRRM brought this bold, independent, playful yet seductive woman to life.

Lost in the translation to screen was the fact that book Asha was the one who came onto Theon, flirting with him shamelessly while pretending to be a shipwright's wife looking to be whisked away by the "lord of Pyke." Instead, what we were presented was mostly Theon groping her like the lecher he is. Yes, she did play along (for like 5 seconds of screen time), but for non-readers, the scene was more about Theon being Theon, rather than igniting their curiosity about who this woman was.

In the book, when she finally reveals herself as his sister, she does so at a feast and sits at a place of honor beside her father. The way she handles herself and the laughter she evokes from the other men when she belittles Theon also demonstrated the respect she had earned from her peers, despite her gender. We also lose great lines about her husband is her axe and her suckling babe is the dagger between her breasts.

Instead, on the show, the way she just stands beside her father makes her seem like some dutiful daughter who simply won his favor. Yes, Balon does talk about her successes, but television is a visual medium. I want to see that she has the respect of those under her command. I don't want to be told it. It's sad when a book does a better job of this.

This is why I particularly did not like the Littlefinger/Ros scene. It was actually a decent, well-acted scene, and much better than the infamous Littlefinger monologue from last season...but it was completely superfluous. It didn't really add any new character development. The five minutes wasted in the brothel could've been better used to flesh out the introduction of the Greyjoys, who are pretty significant characters from here on out.

Thoughts?


I hope someone asks D&D about this someday, it's their choice.
There were two scenes episode 2 that advanced the plot not one micron.
Even CoK gives precious little page time to Pyke.
So D&D could have borrowed time from those scenes to play out the Theon/Asha meeting with more elaboration, cause outside of the humor it told us a lot about Asha and more about Theon and I call that plot advancement.
So it was an odd choice.


#5 Voshed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:17 AM

I agree totaly with the first 2 comments. If a viewer hadn't read the book scene would have introduced Yara/Asha to the story but without a taste of presence within the Iron Island Clan that is evident as the story unfolds.
That said, I totaly disagree with the casting. I feel Gemma Whealan's was totaly the wrong person for the role and will be incapable of generating the aura and authority she has to display later on in the story, that is so evident in the books.

#6 LordofWinter

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:34 AM

This topic is not for complaints about Asha's name change, or the actress Gemma Whelan's physical appearance/likeness to Asha. Both are wrong imo, but I can deal with that so long as the actress portrays the character well.

I'd like to discuss instead the rushed introduction we got to Asha's character in episode 2. It's a real shame really because Asha's one of my favorite characters in the series and a large reason for that was the brilliant introduction we were given in ACoK. In one chapter, GRRM brought this bold, independent, playful yet seductive woman to life.

Lost in the translation to screen was the fact that book Asha was the one who came onto Theon, flirting with him shamelessly while pretending to be a shipwright's wife looking to be whisked away by the "lord of Pyke." Instead, what we were presented was mostly Theon groping her like the lecher he is. Yes, she did play along (for like 5 seconds of screen time), but for non-readers, the scene was more about Theon being Theon, rather than igniting their curiosity about who this woman was.

In the book, when she finally reveals herself as his sister, she does so at a feast and sits at a place of honor beside her father. The way she handles herself and the laughter she evokes from the other men when she belittles Theon also demonstrated the respect she had earned from her peers, despite her gender. We also lose great lines about her husband is her axe and her suckling babe is the dagger between her breasts.


not trying to nitpick or rudely correct you, but in the books theon finds out who asha is from the groomsman who takes their horse. which is what i didn't like about the episode was that i loved this scene in the books. but you're right they neglected to really show how asha toys with theon the whole time and theon eats it up thinking he's a f***ing stud(he also talks about his sister that he hasn't seen in 9 years and how he remembers her being so ugly). reading it i could all but picture the look on his face when he realizes that the woman he's just been molesting is his sister. I think changing that scene was a bad choice when they could have just simply followed the story and not wasted time with the LF scene(i get that they need to show how heartless he truly is, but i don't care) and made theon's trip to pyke more than brief scenery and a hint of the madman they call Balon.

#7 Peras

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

In my head Asha Greyjoy is Robin from how i met your mother. Don't ask me why.

I do not disagree with the cast entirely. She still has the looks of a proper iron islander, but yeah... could've been better

#8 Nezzer

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

In my head Asha Greyjoy is Robin from how i met your mother. Don't ask me why.

I do not disagree with the cast entirely. She still has the looks of a proper iron islander, but yeah... could've been better

Agreed, could be better, but I think many readers envisioned Asha the wrong way. Check the drawings people made of her. Most of them show her with tight and short clothes, with a huge cleavage. I've always pictured her more like a Xena woman warrior, wearing real armor, than a RPG one with stupid bikini armor. The actress hasn't impressed me much so far, but she hasn't done a bad job either IMHO. Nina Gold has been amazing with the casting, and she was perfect in Rome with every single character. I believe Gemma Whelan will still surprises one day.

#9 The Direfox

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:03 AM

I would also have liked to see the proper scene, but remember that the feast scene would have required numerous actors, a huge new original hall, and lots of time and money. The writers probably chose to favor the LF scene over Asha's real intro because it was much less expensive and time consuming.

#10 Rolex Baratheon

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:36 AM

Asha was the one at fault in the book, and the show changed it to Theon. I hated that. She looked wrong, talked wrong and acted wrong on a whole.