93 replies to this topic

[Kittykatknits]

Fearsome Fred, on 10 April 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

I'm not sure that's true.  I think she still holds to the "True Knight" ideal, and still measures knights according to the "True Knight" ideal.  But she has become more cautious in her judgments.

If you are talking about the Sansa of the first two books, I would agree with you. But, by the time aFFC comes out, she has very different feelings about knights, even stating that she hates them.

[Currawong]

Sansa and Jaime?  No Way.

See Jaime's furious reaction in ASOS, and his ultimate rift with his father, when Tywon suggested that Jaime should give up the KG, marry Margaery (Joffrey's widow) and go back to do his 'family duty'.   Jaime wasn't going to marry his son's  "leftover" widow, he was sick of all the politics, and he didn't want "the Rock" and what Tywon thought was family duty.   So he's hardly going to marry Tyrion's widow / ex-wife (assuming the marriage gets annulled in some way).

[Crystal]

But on a side note, Jamie did say that Sansa was his last chance for honor. There might just be more to come for the two of them.
On the other hand, there's Cersei's prophecy. I noticed many people think it refers to Sansa. If Sansa also got Jamie, that would give the prophecy a whole new dimension...

[Kittykatknits]

Crystal, on 10 April 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

But on a side note, Jamie did say that Sansa was his last chance for honor. There might just be more to come for the two of them.
On the other hand, there's Cersei's prophecy. I noticed many people think it refers to Sansa. If Sansa also got Jamie, that would give the prophecy a whole new dimension...

I think there is a decent chance that the two of them will at least cross paths because of the vow to Catelyn. But that's it. Not going to happen.

[Maroucia]

Crystal, on 10 April 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

But on a side note, Jamie did say that Sansa was his last chance for honor. There might just be more to come for the two of them.
On the other hand, there's Cersei's prophecy. I noticed many people think it refers to Sansa. If Sansa also got Jamie, that would give the prophecy a whole new dimension...

There is much more honors in a disinterested act then the opposite. Jaime just wants to make up for the promise he made to Cat, that’s it.

[Elba the Intoner]

Christina Ceriddwynn, on 10 April 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

He's a Lannister......pretty sure she's done with Lions at this point

Exactly!  It's not just about the fact that he pushed Bran.  She hates Lannisters and Jaime is the first Lannister she comes to hate. After the scene in AGOT when he attacks Ned's men and Jory is killed she blames Jaime.  Later when she is married to Tyrion she grudgingly acknowledges that Tyrion seems to be the best of the Lannisters but even so she never trusts him. She and Tyrion made each other miserable and it would not be any better if she ended up with Jaime.

[Nausicaä]

Noooooo.

Crystal, on 10 April 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Isn't he a good looking knight she always wanted?

Fearsome Fred, on 10 April 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

That's not what she wanted.  She got that with Joffrey.  She decided it wasn't enough.

Kittykatknits, on 10 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Um, no. She had the perfect looking knight, Joffrey. It's pretty obvious just reading her chapters that she is completely over knights. Bad idea for all the same reasons that Sansa and Tyrion is a bad idea, maybe even worse.

...Joffrey was no true knight.

DannySpud, on 10 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Sansa doesn't want a knight anymore, she's finally realised the songs aren't true.

Kittykatknits, on 10 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

It's pretty obvious just reading her chapters that she is completely over knights.

Sansa may not view that idea as she used to, but it doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve someone who embodies it and is truly decent and honorable. Those men do exist (see: Davos, Brienne). Jaime isn't one of them, though, at least not in relation to Sansa and her family.

Jem, on 10 April 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

As for Sansa, I just hope that she doesn't end up with someone who is old enough to be her father and who isn't mentally fucked up (and I know that second one narrows down the field quite a lot!) and who, if not handsome, at least isn't physically mutilated, deformed or disfigured.

Amen.

[Currawong]

Kittykatknits, on 10 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

I think there is a decent chance that the two of them will at least cross paths because of the vow to Catelyn. But that's it. Not going to happen.

Agree their paths will probably cross some day, and maybe Jaime will even save her from something / someone, honouring his promise to Catelyn as best he could.   But that would be it.  Even if Jaime were free to marry (don't forget he is still Lord Commander of the KG), there is no way that Sansa would ever want to marry him, and Jaime would certainly never agree to marry her.

[Fragile Bird]

Oh, a topic close to my heart, lol!  Sansa will end up with one of Sandor, Willas or Jaime.

There is so much foreshadowing that it's going to be Sandor, that it would be just like GRRM to do the bittersweet here and have Sandor a member of her household, but never married to her, because his status is too low.  Or have Sandor join up with Jaime in the search for and rescue of Sansa, and have Sandor killed.  

Then there is Willas, who was so close yet so far away just before Sansa was married off to Tyrion.  He's a maybe, but a weak one because he has not shown up in the books yet except in passing.

Then there's Jaime - why?

The foreshadowing:

1.  LF tells Sansa that an older man is a good thing for a younger woman, meaning himself, of course, but we know that's not going to happen.  That would be evil, not bittersweet, lol!  That description of an older man would include all three of the above gentlemen.

2.  Jaime says, we Kingslayers should stick together.  There's a big GRRM hint.

3.  LF tells Ned Stark after Ned leaves the dying Robert that he should make peace with the Lannisters, marry his children to Lannisters, and make long term plans for the kingdom, which he, LF, would help him with, for a price.  This was the logical path Ned should have taken if he were a true player of the Game of Thrones, but instead he rejected it, leading LF to go to Cersei and sell him out, resulting in Ned's death and the destruction of his family.  The family's fortune can be restored by doing what Ned was advised to do in the first place - bittersweet indeed!

4.  Sansa wanted blonde Lannister babies, and that wouldn't preclude some born looking like Arya and Robb.  Of course, she rejected Joffrey in the end, and dreamed of babies with Willas, but the Tyrells really look like they are going to be wiped out in the end.

5.  With Jaime on his redemption arc, I can see he and Sandor ending up together after Lady Stoneheart orders him to return her daughters to her, resulting in Sansa being rescued from LF, and Sandor dead. (sniff)  His acts of heroism will show Sansa that there are true knights left in the world.  He'll be injured, and Sansa will nurse him back to health, eventually asking her brother (whichever one) the King in the North, to allow her to marry him.

6.  The end of the war will mean Westeros has to be healed, and what better way to heal Westeros than by having the lion and the direwolf join forces to protect the kingdom.  The new king/queen will not want him as LC of the Kingsguard, and will release him from his vows.

7.  Tyrion is the Valonqar, and will either die or be made Dany's or Aegon's hand.  If he doesn't die, he will release Sansa, because he knows she loathes him, and he will actually finally find someone who loves him.

ETA:
8.  Another thing that really stood out for me was the fact that once we started to see Jaime's POV, we saw how much the two of them are alike.  Jaime is one of the few characters in all the books who, just like Sansa, is always thinking about the people around him.  When he's out in the field he goes around to visit his soldiers, stopping to talk to them and see that they are being looked after.  He thinks about Pia, and his squire, he treats his prisoners with respect, he thanks the people who do things for him.  He rescues Brienne, and defends her to Loras, who finally acknowledges she didn't kill Renly.  And most of all, he's faithful - once he starts his love affair with his sister, he never thinks of another woman.  Sounds like the man for Sansa.
I know the archers are already notching their arrows, but what can I say?  The signs are there folks.

Edited by Fragile Bird, 10 April 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[Howling Mad]

Jamie and Sansa its possible.  We know that Jamoes doesn't have a problem having sex with his sister so why would having sex with your sister-in-law pose a problem?

Fragile Bird, on 10 April 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

I know the archers are already notching their arrows, but what can I say?  The signs are there folks.

I shall refrain from shooting arrows at a fellow bard

Edited by Howling4Reed, 10 April 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[Golden Lady]

I dont see any chances.maybe sansa can feel "something" for him beacuse as someone already said he is a good looking knight, etc. but jamie feeling something for her? Mmm, I dont know.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

In case you missed it the first time: No.

And I say that for Jaime's benefit, not Sansa's.

Edited by Sand Snake No. 9, 10 April 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[Currawong]

Fragile Bird, on 10 April 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

And most of all, he's faithful - once he starts his love affair with his sister, he never thinks of another woman.  

You mean, except when he thinks affectionately of Brienne?  

Howling4Reed, on 10 April 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

We know that Jamoes doesn't have a problem having sex with his sister so why would having sex with your sister-in-law pose a problem?

See my post above.  Jaime had a major problem with Tywin's suggestion that Jaime should marry and have sex with his son's widow Margaery.  So why wouldn't he feel the same way about his S.I.L.?

[Fragile Bird]

Howling4Reed, on 10 April 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Jamie and Sansa its possible.  We know that Jamoes doesn't have a problem having sex with his sister so why would having sex with your sister-in-law pose a problem?

I shall refrain from shooting arrows at a fellow bard

Thank you, ser, I appreciate that, lol!

ETA:  What, nobody liked my post, lol!

Edited by Fragile Bird, 10 April 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[brashcandy]

Fragile Bird, on 10 April 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Then there's Jaime - why?

The foreshadowing:

1.  LF tells Sansa that an older man is a good thing for a younger woman, meaning himself, of course, but we know that's not going to happen.  That would be evil, not bittersweet, lol!  That description of an older man would include all three of the above gentlemen.

With all due respect, FB, none of this looks to be foreshadowing IMO. An older gentleman could include any one over the age of 20 in Westeros, Essos and the lands of always winter. So Sansa could end up with Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Jorah Mormont, or even an Other, I suppose.

Quote

2.  Jaime says, we Kingslayers should stick together.  There's a big GRRM hint.

Sounds like a bad joke. And surely sticking together doesn't equate to hooking up?

Quote

3.  LF tells Ned Stark after Ned leaves the dying Robert that he should make peace with the Lannisters, marry his children to Lannisters, and make long term plans for the kingdom, which he, LF, would help him with, for a price.  This was the logical path Ned should have taken if he were a true player of the Game of Thrones, but instead he rejected it, leading LF to go to Cersei and sell him out, resulting in Ned's death and the destruction of his family.  The family's fortune can be restored by doing what Ned was advised to do in the first place - bittersweet indeed!

They've been there and done that. Sansa hates the Lannisters, and barely managed to muster up some sympathy for Tyrion. LF wants them dead, and an alliance between the two families won't heal anything. Ned saw the truth of that when he broke off the engagement to Joffrey.

Quote

4.  Sansa wanted blonde Lannister babies, and that wouldn't preclude some born looking like Arya and Robb.  Of course, she rejected Joffrey in the end, and dreamed of babies with Willas, but the Tyrells really look like they are going to be wiped out in the end.

That was in the past. Last time we heard she wants a little girl who looks like Arya. Guess whose daughter Arya got mistaken for?

Quote

5.  With Jaime on his redemption arc, I can see he and Sandor ending up together after Lady Stoneheart orders him to return her daughters to her, resulting in Sansa being rescued from LF, and Sandor dead. (sniff)  His acts of heroism will show Sansa that there are true knights left in the world.  He'll be injured, and Sansa will nurse him back to health, eventually asking her brother (whichever one) the King in the North, to allow her to marry him.

Jaime Lannister is not a true knight, and I really resent this idea that Sansa should be grateful for Cersei's sloppy seconds.

Quote

6.  The end of the war will mean Westeros has to be healed, and what better way to heal Westeros than by having the lion and the direwolf join forces to protect the kingdom.  The new king/queen will not want him as LC of the Kingsguard, and will release him from his vows.

Now I know you're joking

Quote

7.  Tyrion is the Valonqar, and will either die or be made Dany's or Aegon's hand.  If he doesn't die, he will release Sansa, because he knows she loathes him, and he will actually finally find someone who loves him.

Where's the foreshadowing again of that Sansa/Jaime relationship?

Quote

ETA:
8.  Another thing that really stood out for me was the fact that once we started to see Jaime's POV, we saw how much the two of them are alike.  Jaime is one of the few characters in all the books who, just like Sansa, is always thinking about the people around him.  When he's out in the field he goes around to visit his soldiers, stopping to talk to them and see that they are being looked after.  He thinks about Pia, and his squire, he treats his prisoners with respect, he thanks the people who do things for him.  He rescues Brienne, and defends her to Loras, who finally acknowledges she didn't kill Renly.  And most of all, he's faithful - once he starts his love affair with his sister, he never thinks of another woman.  Sounds like the man for Sansa.
I know the archers are already notching their arrows, but what can I say?  The signs are there folks.

On this criteria, I'd rather Sansa marry Jon Snow. All Jaime was doing in the Riverlands was carrying out the Lannisters dirty work and he has yet to show any real remorse for what he did to Bran. There's absolutely nothing in the text that foreshadows a relationship between these two, but hey, good try!

Edited by brashcandy, 10 April 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[Fragile Bird]

Thanks, Brashcandy, I knew you'd love the idea!  

[Howling Mad]

Fragile Bird, on 10 April 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Thank you, ser, I appreciate that, lol!

ETA:  What, nobody liked my post, lol!

Have to save those likes for another thread

Edited by Howling4Reed, 10 April 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Katydid]

Lord Littlefinger, on 10 April 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Jamie is for Brienne.  That is all.

I like the way you think.

[Melpomene]

Well, other then reasons already stated...

Jaime seems to make it clear that he is drawn to adult women types, with all their adult womanly-ness features. Can't really see him be attracted to really young girls


And talk about peculiar - not only is Sansa his sister in law, but she also almost became his daughter in law and goodness, the relationship would not fare well if Sansa knew what happened to Bran AND knew what he witnesed.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

I am now inevitably waiting for the Sansa and Cersei will marry thread.

But seriously I don't see Sansa on her free will marrying with any Lannister.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, 11 April 2012 - 09:38 PM.