42 replies to this topic

[Im no Ser]

Envie, on 12 April 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Really? I guess I've never considered over the years of book reading that Varys could be lying and in fact using his 'Eunuch' status as part of his disguise. But to what purpose? I'm not sure how being castrated by foreigners before he came to Westeros is of any real advantage to him in his role as the 'spider' or spy of the royal court.

Because giggling Eunuchs are perceived as less of a threat (both short and long term) than he-man knights in the PC world of Westeros.  It's pretty clear that at least part of the "Varys" personality is an act:  there are several occasions when he is talking to people (who are usually about to die) and his voice changes to the point where it doesn't sound like the same man.

BTW, I think he's a eunuch.  His story about his castration has the ring of truth to me.  But at the end of the day the only evidence on the subject we've received is his word, and he's a professional liar.

[Envie]

I, on 12 April 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Because giggling Eunuchs are perceived as less of a threat (both short and long term) than he-man knights in the PC world of Westeros.  It's pretty clear that at least part of the "Varys" personality is an act:  there are several occasions when he is talking to people (who are usually about to die) and his voice changes to the point where it doesn't sound like the same man.

BTW, I think he's a eunuch.  His story about his castration has the ring of truth to me.  But at the end of the day the only evidence on the subject we've received is his word, and he's a professional liar.

I agree with you that the giggling, simpering and powdered looks are all part of an act too. This was revealed in the books as well as in the show when he came to Ned Stark repeatedly dressed as the jail guard and speaking less femininely.

I too think Varys is actually a Eunuch but is playing on Westeros beliefs that being a eunuch must make you weak and girlish somehow. Not necessarily homosexual, but definitely not manly either. Robbing a man of his manhood does not necessarily turn him gay or even weak as we later learn with the Unsullied.

[Dr. Pepper]

This particular scene was very well done and was not meant to question Varys' sexuality.  It was a humorous spar with words where the show was able to tell the audience that Varys has a way of knowing, but Shae does also.  A lot of characters in both the books and the show try to make guesses about Varys' sexuality.  But all of these snide comments made to Varys become unfounded throughout the series.  LF implies that he's a pedophile who likes boys since he assumes his 'little birds' must be all boys, but in the epilogue of ADWD we learn that they are in fact children of both genders. There are many characters within the series who have questionable sexuality or sexual practices that later turn out to be true, but Varys is has never so much as slipped up in two decades to reveal that he is anything but what he says he is - a eunuch who has no friends and knows no love.

I think Varys is a eunuch and I trust that his story to Tyrion has elements of truth in it.  However, there are lots of theories floating out there that Varys may in fact be a woman.  The evidence these theories present coupled with the conversation with Shae give merit to the theories.  I think it's unlikely Varys is a woman, but the theories are interesting nonetheless.

[Bastard of Boston]

This is Varys. At his core, I think his main goal is to keep people guessing. He may be gay. He may be straight. He may be all the above. One thing that is definitely not straight about him is the idea that he's not likely to ever give you a straight answer...about anything.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Umberto, on 11 April 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I have watched this episode twice now, and I think I have found something many people have missed. I'm referring to the second scene in the episode, with Varys, Tyrion, and Shae.

The first part of the conversation is light and fun, before the overall tone gets serious by Varys mentioning he knows about Shae not being allowed in King's Landing. Here is the part I am referencing:

Tyrion: "Strange things do happen, you should taste her fish pie."

Shae: "I don't think Lord Varys likes fish pie."

Varys: "How can you tell?" (in a playful tone)

Shae: "I can always tell." (smiling)

*Varys leans his head back and smiles at Shae*

Tyrion: "Men like Lord Varys and I can't let our disadvantages get the best of us. We'll make a fisherman of him yet."


Now that this little tidbit has been written down for you to analyze, I probably don't have to go into too much detail as to what I think it means. I also want to mention that I don't really care about Varys' sexuality, but I just found this little bit interesting as it seems very subtle but also obvious at the same time. It seems to me that David and Dan are suggesting that Varys is gay. I could be looking too much into it, but I've watched this scene so many times, I can't come up with any other conclusion as to why it was written this particular way.

Of course this revelation doesn't affect the story at all, but I'm just happy to have found something that no one else seems to have found. Tell me I'm not crazy?

In season one Littlefinger eluded to the same thing.

[Fredwin]

Did we ever get a PoV where he admits to himself that he is a Eunuch? All I can remember is the horrific story he tells about how he became one, but that could all be lies. Outside of that, how do we know he's a Eunuch at all? I certainly wouldn't want visual evidence.

[Lady Olenna]

I thought the reference was pretty obvious - my ears pricked up at the mention of "fish pie" because it just stands out. I thought it was absolutely hilarious and I loved how the end of the conversation continued with the threats if being tossed into the sea. But good old Varys continues to paddle...

I do think that a woman adept in the ability to please men for money would probably be able to sum up a man pretty quickly. So Shae may indeed know what she is talking about.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Pelki, on 12 April 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

And there are multiple ways to pleasure a man without involving his penis or testicles.

The most obvious way would be mostly dealt by another male, though.

We know he claims to have sold what parts were left to him.  That means he let other men bugger him, and he certainly could have been brought to orgasm that way.

[Auska]

…Subtle?

[The Knight of Flours]

lol yeah it was as subtle as a brick

[legba11]

Subtle?

[Envie]

Subtle or not, I don't think the scene revealed Varys' sexuality at all. Again, as in the past many times, Varys is a pro at deflecting insinuating insults thrown at him regarding his castration and sexuality. After the clearly antagonistic things Littlefinger threw at him regarding his 'gash' and little boys last season - its laughable to think some ribald remarks from Tyrion and his whore regarding fish pie would ruffle the feathers of Varys.

[Joe Scallywag]

Proudwing, on 12 April 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

I think she's referencing that he is a eunuch, and therefore has no sexual desire, rather than that he is gay.

This, most likely, that's how i saw it.

[Xtopher]

Tyrion: "Men like Lord Varys and I can't let our disadvantages get the best of us. We'll make a fisherman of him yet."

So Varys being gay would then be a disadvantage? why would it be?

Tyrion´s height is a disadvantage, but how can Vary´s homosexual tendency be a disadvantage? in order for that to be true wouldnt it be a bit homophobic of you?

just throwing that out there.

Edited by Xtopher, 15 April 2012 - 10:40 AM.

[Envie]

Xtopher, on 15 April 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Tyrion: "Men like Lord Varys and I can't let our disadvantages get the best of us. We'll make a fisherman of him yet."

So Varys being gay would then be a disadvantage? why would it be?

Tyrion´s height is a disadvantage, but how can Vary´s homosexual tendency be a disadvantage? in order for that to be true wouldnt it be a bit homophobic of you?

just throwing that out there.

I suspect this dig was meant more towards Varys' disadvantage being a castrated eunuch rather than any suggestion he's homosexual. Then again, as much as Tyrion loves women and loves sex, its also likely Tyrion would consider not liking women to be a disadvantage as well.

[Red Priestess Eros]

If it is said that Varys sold his 'remaining part's on the streets then what parts were they? I thought he said he had been cut root and stem?

[Rocky0390]

I think varys is definitely an eunuch because (but also having read the books) what about the scene in the show where the whore feels him right in that area and finds nothing. I think it would also serve to represent much of what he is a la serving the realm and nothing else more important than that.

[Quiet Isle]

Im no Ser, on 12 April 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

As Tyrion follows it up by talking about "our disadvantages", I assume the line was a reference to the fact that they both have physical disadvantages - e.g., Tyrion's dwarfism and Varys castration.

I've always wondered whether Varys was a eunuch at all, or whether it was just yet another disguise that he wears.  Shae's line seems to settle it for the series, given her ability to see through his disguises.

  I would have agreed with you except for the scene where Ros reaches for his groin and there is nothing there to touch.

[Im no Ser]

Rocky0390, on 06 July 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I think varys is definitely an eunuch because (but also having read the books) what about the scene in the show where the whore feels him right in that area and finds nothing. I think it would also serve to represent much of what he is a la serving the realm and nothing else more important than that.

I believe he is a eunuch, but the series diverges from the books and I don't take revelations there as dispositive to the books.

As for Varys serving "the realm and nothing else" - just because Varys says so doesn't mean it's true.  He's caused an awful lot of misery over the decades for someone with only the public good on his mind.

[someonetyriondpayforsex]

Red Priestess Eros, on 04 June 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

If it is said that Varys sold his 'remaining part's on the streets then what parts were they? I thought he said he had been cut root and stem?

He still has hands, a mouth, and … stuff. One can sell all that. It's a question of technique.