263 replies to this topic

[Phénix.]

Us readers of the books have very big opinions. Some opinions are popular while others are not! What are some opinion you do not agree with or seem to not understand?

FROM ME!

I HATE! when I see people hate on Sansa. It understandable to hate her in AGoT but after reading ACOK you have to at least respect her. I have read that most readers wanted her to fight back when it came to Joffrey and some felt she deserved it.... She is only a girl a very young girl at that. She is no Arya and if she was Joffrey would have killed her or done much worst to her. She has learned her lesson about Judging a book by it cover and she has grown. Its hard seeing your father being killed and learning that you are the last living relative in your family. And to be forced to marry someone against your will.

I'm not a fan of the Dany hate. She is stubborn yes but she's a teenage girl not a 35 year old women. I did get very frustrated In ADwD because of her chose to stay in Meereen. She has done alot so far with the cards that she has been dealt. I think she stayed in Meereen because she is nervous for the big battle to come.

I do not get why people like Samwell. He's chapters were filled with him talking about how he is a coward and ... I just can't find it in myself to love him at all.

Edited by Phénix., 14 April 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[atia-]

Don't really get the Sansa hate either.  She just acts like a pretty little bird that sings nice songs that her septa taught her.  

I 100% get the Cat and Dany hate, regardless how I feel about them.

[Phénix.]

dannister, on 14 April 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Don't really get the Sansa hate either.  She just acts like a pretty little bird that sings nice songs that her septa taught her.  

I 100% get the Cat and Dany hate, regardless how I feel about them.

I Just can't wait for Dany to prove them wrong!

[Apple Martini]

I disagree with any opinion that suggests that Dany is competent, a savior, immune to fire, not an entitled brat, etc. The only criticism she gets where I feel compelled to defend her, gross as it makes me feel, is when people take potshots at her sex life.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

I don't get the Dany hate, I really enjoy her chapters for the most part. I think Cat hate is exaggerated a lot too and Sansa has reasons for being hated but I think she's gonna make up for what she did during AGOT

[chris999]

I dont agree with the opinion that Jon will be ressurected by Melissandre, then wake up as Azor Ahai, the Slayer of the Others.... yawn.

too predictable. GRRM is going to give us something we didnt expect.

[Lord Ben]

I hate it when anyone who roots for Sandor Clegane to "get the girl" or when they want Jon to live have people calling them disney or something similar.    As if a story arc with a hopeless princess enmeshed in stories of chivalry getting betrothed to the Heir of the Throne only to have everything fall apart because of it and her entire family killed (from her POV) and giving up all those dreams only to have it actually come true in some fashion when Clegane literally saves the princess in the tower.   It's sort of stereotypical in it's broad types but completely messed up along nearly every single detail.   The kind of "real" story that would get warped by song and legend after a few hundred years into something AGoT Sansa would like.  

Personally I think it's an interesting way to tell the "actual" events that might get twisted into the legend of the princess imprisoned in the tower and the white knight rescuing her.   But some people have to have characters die or end up miserable else it's disney.

[Sevumar]

I disagree with people who use the term "hate" to describe disapproval or criticism of favorite/well-liked characters. In a series with a large number of grey characters (by Martin's own design and description), there is more than enough criticism to go around. Yet, people seem to get particularly offended when legitimate criticisms are leveled at characters they love.

Edited by Sevumar, 14 April 2012 - 12:50 AM.

[N. Baratheon]

I disagree that Jon is dead, even to the extent that he'll become UnJon.  I feel that his "death" is worded a lot like the end of Theon's final chapter in aCoK.  As far as I'm concerned he's not dead until we see his corpse in tWoW.

[Phénix.]

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 14 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I don't get the Dany hate, I really enjoy her chapters for the most part. I think Cat hate is exaggerated a lot too and Sansa has reasons for being hated but I think she's gonna make up for what she did during AGOT

Sansa doesn't need to "make up" for it.. All she had to do was learn from it! AND SHE DID.

Sevumar, on 14 April 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

I disagree with people who use the term "hate" to describe disapproval or criticism of favorite/well-liked characters. In a series with a large number of grey characters (by Martin's own design and description), there is more than enough criticism to go around. Yet, people seem to get particularly offended when legitimate criticisms are leveled at characters they love.

Well people are bound to get offended. If you are passionate about something you just don't sit there and let people slam it or make it seem like its nothing...

[Sevumar]

Phénix., on 14 April 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Well people are bound to get offended. If you are passionate about something you just don't sit there and let people slam it or make it seem like its nothing...

Being passionate about something is different than being blind to the shortcomings of a character, idea, or thing. There are reasonable limits within which most characters can be defended, but Martin's characters do a lot of outrageous, abusive, and atrocious things. There's good reason to believe that we're meant to be disgusted by many of these actions. But there is a disturbing tendency to defend things that shouldn't be defeneded, simply because somebody really likes a character.

[DirePenguin]

Well we all have different backgrounds (and culture in my case) so it's only normal we would have different reactions to different stories. For example I felt totally OK when characters kill babies to totally wipe out certain families while a lot of people are not. Not that I'm morally agree with such actions, but it happens so much in Asian history that I did't find the idea strange or anything.

Reading about Catelyn . . . made me mad sometimes. I started to feel really against her and her thought process. Especially from book 2 onward.

Edited by DirePenguin, 14 April 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Stannis is the Mannis]

I don't agree with the Targaryen love. The last king was terrible and they lost their throne the same way they gained it, by conquer. And when their main spokesperson is Dany, the oblivious incompetent girl who wants to rule the 7 Kingdoms when she can't even handle Meereen, it is even less clear to me why many would have their family restored to power. Dany is ok as a character (although often boring), but she is not a fit ruler in my opinion.

[Phénix.]

DirePenguin, on 14 April 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Well we all have different backgrounds (and culture in my case) so it's only normal we would have different reactions to different stories. For example I felt totally OK when characters kill babies to totally wipe out certain families while a lot of people are not. Not that I'm morally agree with such actions, but it happens so much in Asian history that I did't find the idea strange or anything.

Reading about Catelyn . . . made me mad sometimes. I started to feel really against her and her thought process. Especially from book 2 onward.

^ yeah! But the whole baby thing is disturbing. Yet it has and is still happening in our own world.

[Dr. Pepper]

I developed a lot of annoyances about some opinions while I spent a few months being a passive reader on this forum.

• I can't stand all of the 'what if' relationship threads.  "What if Sansa/Jaime, Sansa/Sandor, Brienne/Jaime, Brienne/Sansa?"
  
• I really can't stand all of the Dany love or the idea that she's going to be some sort of savior.  Her savior status should have disappeared around the time she decided to sack Slaver's Bay.
  
• I get my panties in a twist every time someone says that Cersei is clever.  She's not.  She's stupid.  Dumb.  An idiot.
  
• I hate when people pick on poor Sansa.  She's an annoying, innocent little tween, aye, but she was woefully unprepared for the situation she found herself in.  Yet someone she managed to use what tools she possessed to survive.
  
• I somewhat dislike the "What if Ned never went to KL" or "What if Robb didn't marry Jeyne Westerling" type of threads. Hello, it would be an entirely different story if some of these major events didn't happen.  It's fun to think about what could have been, but there's fanfiction for that.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Phénix., on 14 April 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Sansa doesn't need to "make up" for it.. All she had to do was learn from it! AND SHE DID.



Well people are bound to get offended. If you are passionate about something you just don't sit there and let people slam it or make it seem like its nothing...

I think she does have stuff to make up for, she's the one who ran to Cersei to tell her about Ned's plans to leave. She treated her sister pretty bad, it was reciprocal I know, but still.

I also disagree with everyone that says that "no GRRM is not gonna do that because it's the status quo" to any possibility about happy endings or someone dying. If he just writes everything to 'fuck the system, man' he becomes the system and is ruled by the  system, much like hipsters. Hipsters always go against what's mainstream therefore they are ruled by the system, so if GRRM tries to wreck the system set by other fantasy writers he's not any good, which is obviously not true.
Overall, I think GRRM writes what feels right, he doesn't let the system rule him in one way or another, he writes what feels right, what makes a good story and what makes sense without creating implausible plots. If what he writes happens to go along or against the fantasy status quo so be it, that doesn't affect him. There's instances of both going along and going against the status quo so I dont see the point of saying that GRRM is a contrarian
Going against status quo: Crippling Bran, killing Ned and Robb,
Going along status quo: Killing Joeffrey, Cersei's walk of shame, killing Tywin.

[Phénix.]

Stannis is the Mannis, on 14 April 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I don't agree with the Targaryen love. The last king was terrible and they lost their throne the same way they gained it, by conquer. And when their main spokesperson is Dany, the oblivious incompetent girl who wants to rule the 7 Kingdoms when she can't even handle Meereen, it is even less clear to me why many would have their family restored to power. Dany is ok as a character (although often boring), but she is not a fit ruler in my opinion.

She is, Her povs are prime example of when a country is taken over by an other and how power is delicate. If she Tame her dragons people will bend others will try to fight. When the Targ first came to the west they won with fire and blood not because everyone was ok with it.

[Stannis is the Mannis]

Phénix., on 14 April 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

She is, Her povs are prime example of when a country is taken over by an other and how power is delicate. If she Tame her dragons people will bend others will try to fight. When the Targ first came to the west they won with fire and blood not because everyone was ok with it.

I think she's an unfit ruler, not that it's impossible for her to conquer. Yes if she tames her dragons she may very well have the power to conquer Westeros, but that doesn't make her any less of an incompetent ruler (again, just my opinion of her). She has not done well in ruling Meereen by any stretch of my imagination.

Edited by Stannis is the Mannis, 14 April 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[Sevumar]

Dr. Pepper, on 14 April 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I can't stand all of the 'what if' relationship threads.  "What if Sansa/Jaime, Sansa/Sandor, Brienne/Jaime, Brienne/Sansa?"

Quote

I really can't stand all of the Dany love or the idea that she's going to be some sort of savior.  Her savior status should have disappeared around the time she decided to sack Slaver's Bay.

I agree with both of these. All the energy and speculation people put into "shipping" makes me wonder why they have so much invested in specific characters getting together.

It should be clear after reading AGoT that there isn't such thing as a simple savior in Martin's world. Even if someone is supposed to do something monumental, it's always going to be fraught with complications and drawbacks.

[Apple Martini]

Dr. Pepper, on 14 April 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

• I somewhat dislike the "What if Ned never went to KL" or "What if Robb didn't marry Jeyne Westerling" type of threads. Hello, it would be an entirely different story if some of these major events didn't happen.  It's fun to think about what could have been, but there's fanfiction for that.

I agree with this. Not a fan of hypotheticals, especially the really out there ones. This series is complicated enough trying to make sense of what actually happens, thank you very much.

Stannis is the Mannis, on 14 April 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I think she's an unfit ruler, not that it's impossible for her to conquer. Yes if she tames her dragons she may very well have the power to conquer Westeros, but that doesn't make her any less of an incompetent ruler (again, just my opinion of her). She has not done well in ruling Meereen by any stretch of my imagination.

You'd be surprised by how many people think that being able to burn down a city must mean that you're fit to rule it. Scares the bejesus out of me. I see this excuse trotted out a lot. "Well she has dragons so she's meant to be queen!" As if the dragons will write policy and conduct trade and plant crops and collect taxes and all of the other mundane stuff you have to deal with after you park your ass on the throne.