263 replies to this topic

[DannySpud]

I don't believe Jon, Dany or Stannis is AA. Stan is pretty clearly not AA, his lightbringer had no heat. Dany is just too obvious, and I have a different theory for Jon based on R+L=J

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

DannySpud, on 14 April 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

I don't believe Jon, Dany or Stannis is AA. Stan is pretty clearly not AA, his lightbringer had no heat. Dany is just too obvious, and I have a different theory for Jon based on R+L=J

Who else do you think AA is ? Not being sarcastic but Im genuinely curious

[Fire Eater]

Apple Martini, on 14 April 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

You'd be surprised by how many people think that being able to burn down a city must mean that you're fit to rule it. Scares the bejesus out of me. I see this excuse trotted out a lot. "Well she has dragons so she's meant to be queen!" As if the dragons will write policy and conduct trade and plant crops and collect taxes and all of the other mundane stuff you have to deal with after you park your ass on the throne.

Even Robert said it is one thing to conquer a kingdom, it is quite another to rule one, Genghis Khan's adviser, Yelu Chucai, once said it succinctly that empires can be conquered on horseback but they can't be ruled from them. It is the same if you replace horse with dragon. Dany is proving herself to be an amateur when it comes to governing, while with Jon it comes more easily to him since he has lost his sense of entitlement, and thinks things through before he acts.

One opinion that I don't agree with is that Sandor will be the Faith's champion against Cersei. There two problems with that:
1. How could Sandor have heard about Robert Strong and know who he really is in an isolated environment like the Quiet Isle?
2. The High Septon doesn't know about Sandor on the QI, and even if he did, why would he recruit a lame Sandor as champion when he has a supply of knights at his disposal?

[DannySpud]

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 14 April 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Who else do you think AA is ? Not being sarcastic but Im genuinely curious

Not really sure, I randomly came up with the idea it would be Arya today. The AA legend is that he spent 30 days on the first sword, 50 days on the second sword and 100 days on the last sword. I thought it would be cool if it turned out Arya spent 30 days training with Syrio, 50 days training in the House of Black and White and then spends 100 days fighting with Dany or something, then she uses Needle to kill Uncat and becomes AA. I don't think this is true, but I think it'll be someone unexpected.

ETA: Just saw the theory that it was genuinely Rhaegar and Robert doomed Westeros when he killed him. I quite like this one

Edited by DannySpud, 14 April 2012 - 02:06 AM.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

DannySpud, on 14 April 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Not really sure, I randomly came up with the idea it would be Arya today. The AA legend is that he spent 30 days on the first sword, 50 days on the second sword and 100 days on the last sword. I thought it would be cool if it turned out Arya spent 30 days training with Syrio, 50 days training in the House of Black and White and then spends 100 days fighting with Dany or something, then she uses Needle to kill Uncat and becomes AA. I don't think this is true, but I think it'll be someone unexpected.

ETA: Just saw the theory that it was genuinely Rhaegar and Robert doomed Westeros when he killed him. I quite like this one

Thats a pretty good idea, the timelines might not fit but I dont think it could be necessary for the timelines to fit.
Shes very similar to Aegon because she understands the common people.
Besides Arya is my favorite character so if this means she doesnt die Im okay with it

[Phénix.]

I HATE! the whole

Jon will sit/rule on the iron throne! I love Jon and I have hoped for the best for him. And being king of all 7 kingdoms is not the best!

Edited by Phénix., 14 April 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[Dr. Pepper]

Fire Eater, on 14 April 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Even Robert said it is one thing to conquer a kingdom, it is quite another to rule one...

It always bugs me that people point out how incompetent a ruler Robert was and then go on to praise Dany.  To me they are mirror images of each other, just different genders.  Both were clever at waging a war, both are utterly incompetent rulers.

[Castel]

I dislike the idea that everything will be alright, the Freys will hang, and the Starks will all get back to Winterfell and live happily ever after. There's been too much bloodshed for a disney ending.

I also hate the idea that Dany is entitled to rule/ is a good ruler. Seriously, people can hate all of Westerosi customs and just buy into that one in particular? Dany's a terrible ruler. And I hate the idea that she'll get better by fiat now that she's had her test run (hundreds of dead people that is).

Cersei originally being smart and being retconned in Feast is another one. Make a list of all the smart things she did before Feast, now make a list of the things she did wrong when she was left alone for more than three seconds. Come back and talk to me once you're done.

Oh yeah, just the idea in general that some characters have to die as karmic retribution for betraying a favored character, even if they had their reasons.

And when people start comparing the deeds of characters ad try to assess their effectiveness but include the manner of their death and how many people mourned them afterwards. They're dead. They lost, they don't get bonus points for positive rep.

Edited by Castel, 14 April 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[David C. Hunter]

Opinions I don't agree with?

1.) Tywin Lannister is a genius and master military general.
2.) Lady Stoneheart went crazy because she is dead(She's crazy after watching her last son die)
3.) Jaime Lannister has changed his ways

[atia-]

I don't like it when people want really cheesy endings, like Jon marrying Dany and having babies, and everyone lives happily ever after.

[Phénix.]

David C. Simmons, on 14 April 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Opinions I don't agree with?

1.) Tywin Lannister is a genius and master military general.
2.) Lady Stoneheart went crazy because she is dead(She's crazy after watching her last son die)
3.) Jaime Lannister has changed his ways

Agreed
Um yes and no at the same time
True but he's has learned a lot

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Castel, on 14 April 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I dislike the idea that everything will be alright, the Freys will hang, and the Starks will all get back to Winterfell and live happily ever after. There's been too much bloodshed for a disney ending.

I don't say that this needs to happen or anything but why can't it happen ? I mean there's a big retribution coming for the Freys, if I remember correctly someone said how if you break the Guest Rule then it's like a curse kind of thing and you are doomed. Also I could see a Stark back in Winterfell, and it still wouldnt be a happy ending, all the kids are scarred for life, they lost their parents, Robb, possibly Jon and Bran, not to mention every single person they grew up with. Those memories will haunt them forever, besides Rickon, Sansa and Arya could die but that doesn't mean they all have to die, one can  still return to winterfell easily

[Castel]

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 14 April 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

I don't say that this needs to happen or anything but why can't it happen ? I mean there's a big retribution coming for the Freys, if I remember correctly someone said how if you break the Guest Rule then it's like a curse kind of thing and you are doomed. Also I could see a Stark back in Winterfell, and it still wouldnt be a happy ending, all the kids are scarred for life, they lost their parents, Robb, possibly Jon and Bran, not to mention every single person they grew up with. Those memories will haunt them forever, besides Rickon, Sansa and Arya could die but that doesn't mean they all have to die, one can  still return to winterfell easily

I have no problem with someone believing this. But in an argument, when someone pulls something like this out it really annoys me. Basically it's the is-ought fallacy, things are not going to end up as they ought to be, and using it in an argument is pointless because no one ever provides any proof why things should end up that way.

[atia-]

That's another one - I don't want all the "bad guys" to get their comeuppance, because it's unrealistic.  Some is good, but not practically all of them.

[Phénix.]

Castel, on 14 April 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I dislike the idea that everything will be alright, the Freys will hang, and the Starks will all get back to Winterfell and live happily ever after. There's been too much bloodshed for a disney ending.

I also hate the idea that Dany is entitled to rule/ is a good ruler. Seriously, people can hate all of Westerosi customs and just buy into that one in particular? Dany's a terrible ruler. And I hate the idea that she'll get better by fiat now that she's had her test run (hundreds of dead people that is).

Cersei originally being smart and being retconned in Feast is another one. Make a list of all the smart things she did before Feast, now make a list of the things she did wrong when she was left alone for more than three seconds. Come back and talk to me once you're done.

Oh yeah, just the idea in general that some characters have to die as karmic retribution for betraying a favored character, even if they had their reasons.

And when people start comparing the deeds of characters ad try to assess their effectiveness but include the manner of their death and how many people mourned them afterwards. They're dead. They lost, they don't get bonus points for positive rep.

AGREED Cersei is one of the dumbest characters in the series.

My list of what makes her dumb

• Her server case of Penis envy
  
• Her paranoia
  
• Her delusional ideas about people.
  
• Her self entitlement
  
• Her Foolishness

[Phénix.]

dannister, on 14 April 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

That's another one - I don't want all the "bad guys" to get their comeuppance, because it's unrealistic.  Some is good, but not practically all of them.

Good? BAD? thats to black and white for this book. Some would say Ned is "GOOD" but we do not know his pass.

[atia-]

Well, that was why i "" the bad guys.  But come on, some people like the Freys, almost everyone wants to see killed.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Castel, on 14 April 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

I have no problem with someone believing this. But in an argument, when someone pulls something like this out it really annoys me. Basically it's the is-ought fallacy, things are not going to end up as they ought to be, and using it in an argument is pointless because no one ever provides any proof why things should end up that way.

I agree that when people say that it's gonna happen because it will is a stupid argument. I actually think you could back it up, I mean all three starks are missing, nobody is looking for them and Winterfell might be Stannis' in which case a Stark would prove helpful. Not to mention that if LF plans work out Sansa would become the ward of the North. For the Freys, like I said before someone said that its a curse to break the guest rule, there's also the rat cook story which I think is foreshadowing for what will happen to the Freys, Im not trying to convince you because it is a weak theory at best but there it is,
I agree that not all "bad" characters will die, which makes sense I expect Varys or Illyrio to survive and some will die too, Littlefinger. Just because GRRM decides to kill a bad guy doesn't mean he's a sell out or doing a disney movie

[Phénix.]

dannister, on 14 April 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Well, that was why i "" the bad guys.  But come on, some people like the Freys, almost everyone wants to see killed.

It is known that I want all of the fucking FREYS DEAD!

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

dannister, on 14 April 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Well, that was why i "" the bad guys.  But come on, some people like the Freys, almost everyone wants to see killed.

Not all Freys are assholes though, Catelyn notes how many of the Freys who befriended Robb and the one who took her to see stannis and renly were missing, which she thought odd at the moment. So they were probably not okay with the Red Wedding or were possibly not informed or removed to avoid any problems with them