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[No Spoilers] Ep 203 Discussion

Game of Thrones No Spoilers A Song of Ice and Fire GoT HBO What Is Dead May Never Die Season 2 ASoIaF GRRM

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#1 Ran

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:12 AM

Non-spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who've not read the books or those who have but are happy to not actually reference them at all in discussion, taking each episode as it comes.

This topic should open automatically when the show begins airing.

#2 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:00 AM

The Theon/Balon interaction was amazing. That scene revealed so much about their respective characters, so economically. Balon treats Theon like dirt, but you can see that the real reason for his disgust is his own self-loathing and shame over being defeated and having his children taken from him. And poor Theon -- he is in such an impossible situation. He acted like a total douche the previous episode, but now you can completely sympathise with him. I wish he had sent his letter, but I can understand why he chose to burn it instead. In the end, this is the only family he has.

And the scene also illuminated how hypocritical and pathetic the Greyjoys' macho posturing ("We pay the iron price") is. Yeah, they're such tough warriors that they only attack unarmed fishermen. Balon knows from bitter experience that he can't actually beat an armed enemy like the Lannisters, so instead he waits until the North is undefended and then makes a sneak attack. What a tool.

#3 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:04 AM

The Theon/Balon interaction was amazing. That scene revealed so much about their respective characters, so economically. Balon treats Theon like dirt, but you can see that the real reason for his disgust is his own self-loathing and shame over being defeated and having his children taken from him. And poor Theon -- he is in such an impossible situation. He acted like a total douche the previous episode, but now you can completely sympathise with him. I wish he had sent his letter, but I can understand why he chose to burn it instead. In the end, this is the only family he has.

And the scene also illuminated how hypocritical and pathetic the Greyjoys' macho posturing ("We pay the iron price") is. Yeah, they're such tough warriors that they only attack unarmed fishermen. Balon knows from bitter experience that he can't actually beat an armed enemy like the Lannisters, so instead he waits until the North is undefended and then makes a sneak attack. What a tool.


Since these threads are always so dead, I thought I'd come over and give you some company /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> I do think the Ironborn are pretty hypocritical. To go on and on about the iron price and act like tough warriors, yet spend their time slaying unarmed fishermen says a lot about them.

And Theon....he is in such a mess! Being with the crazy strict Viking Ironborns from birth to 9 and then living with the "softer" Starks from 9-19/20 and THEN coming back to his homeland must do crazy things to his head. I do empathize with him.

#4 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:12 AM

/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Thanks for the company, this is my first time posting on this site (after hearing about it on reddit).

Man oh man, watching Yoren die really hurt. And just when the pain of Ned's death had finally subsided. I'm glad that Arya didn't become some kind of ninja warrior in spite of her training with Syrio (and his death really hurt too!). F*cking Lannisters! They'd better get some comeuppance soon, I can't take much more of them winning all the time.

#5 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:20 AM

/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Thanks for the company, this is my first time posting on this site (after hearing about it on reddit).

Man oh man, watching Yoren die really hurt. And just when the pain of Ned's death had finally subsided. I'm glad that Arya didn't become some kind of ninja warrior in spite of her training with Syrio (and his death really hurt too!). F*cking Lannisters! They'd better get some comeuppance soon, I can't take much more of them winning all the time.


I know, I loved Yoren! /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> That tore me up as well. Yeah, Arya is just a "sheep" now, she knows she can't take on all of those guys on her own. But I think Syrio's training will stay with her for a long time. She learned so many valuable lessons from him and really took them to heart. Great choice, Ned! Yes, those damn Lannisters. I tolerate Tyrion and sometimes Jaime, but Tywin is just evil. The way they are just pillaging everywhere and killing and raping everyone on sight is just disgusting.

#6 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:34 AM

Yes, those damn Lannisters. I tolerate Tyrion and sometimes Jaime, but Tywin is just evil. The way they are just pillaging everywhere and killing and raping everyone on sight is just disgusting.


Oh no, I guess this is coming in the future? Or do you mean the scene in season 1, where the poor farmer complains to the court about how the Lannisters are killing and pillaging, and brings a bag full of fish?

I didn't catch all of Tyrion's interaction with Little finger, but I got the impression that he (Tyrion) had made some deal with Balon, since he mentioned how much Theon's father hates the Starks. Was that the subtext, or was I misinterpreting what was going on?

#7 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:37 AM

Yes, I was referring to the first season. That's why Ned sent Beric away - to deal with all of that. It disgusted him.

As far as the Tyrion/Littlefinger thing, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. I didn't get any impression that Tyrion is making a deal with Balon. If you are a little more specific I may be able to answer /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#8 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:42 AM

As far as the Tyrion/Littlefinger thing, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. I didn't get any impression that Tyrion is making a deal with Balon. If you are a little more specific I may be able to answer /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


Well, in the scene where Tyrion proposes marrying Cersei's daughter to Theon Greyjoy, he seems pretty confident that Balon Greyjoy is already on his side, and that he (Balon) hates the Starks. I wasn't sure how he would know that, unless he'd been communicating with Balon. But I might have been reading too much into it.

#9 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:47 AM

He was just doing that to test out the three council members, whose loyalties he doubted. I'm pretty sure he just made up that Theon story out of thin air. This is actually what happened in the book, not really much of a spoiler, but just in case:

Spoiler


#10 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

Yes, that was a pretty neat trick he pulled. Tyrion is pretty awesome, I really enjoyed his conversation with Varys about the nature of power. Well, there were lots of things I really enjoyed about this show, in spite of its tendency to kill off characters I like.

Okay, thanks for the clarifications, now off to bed!

#11 mrnegativity

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:22 AM

It's nice seeing someone here who hasn't read the books! It's impossible for me (and I suspect most people here) to watch without thinking about the books. Like a neverending meta-critique playing out as the show does.

So it's refreshing getting your perspective! You're in for a crazy ride, dude. It's all I can do not to spoil shit for you.

I'll say though that you're spot on with Arya. She's just lost Ned and now all of a sudden she's lost the father figure / protector that saved her from King's Landing... both executed right in front of her. Tough cookie.

#12 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:24 AM

And it's so difficult to make sure I don't accidentally spoil or give anything away either! But I do love to see non-readers on here as well. And I'm sure they'll be readers one day /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Edited by dannister, 16 April 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#13 vinnie1912

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

I came to the books from the series so i'm reading the books after the series. I actually struggled reading GoT as I didn't think it offered much over the series. I guess that means I think it was a good interpretation.

Will see how i manage when i have a year wait until season 3. It was only about 3 months for me this time.

"

It's nice seeing someone here who hasn't read the books! It's impossible for me (and I suspect most people here) to watch without thinking about the books."



I remember that feeling watching LoTR, Luckily i dont generally have an issue with changes for adaption as long as they dont start inventing whole chapters (warg attack style from TTT).





Regarding the episode. Would like to see some more progress on the grand schemes, 3 build up episodes so far.

Theon revealing himself to be even more pathetic than previously. Hopefully he will be his own man someday.

I'm guessing the crazies Arya released will be attacking the Lannister soldiers next episode,

Question I have is does Mormont know that Craster (whatever) is giving the babies to the white walkers or if he has intentionally kept his head in the snow.

Edited by vinnie1912, 16 April 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#14 _Oberyn_

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

Question I have is does Mormont know that Craster (whatever) is giving the babies to the white walkers or if he has intentionally kept his head in the snow.


Tv show: Its hard to tell it would seem so, "you will see it again", but who knows.

Book: It's not obvious what's realy happening to the babies and no one has seen the Others (white walkers) yet so everyone is still sceptical about their existence.

Edited by _Oberyn_, 16 April 2012 - 09:23 AM.


#15 Xtopher

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

Tyrion knows for a fact that Balon Greyjoy hates the Starks because they defeated the Greyjoys (actually humiliated and massacred) during Robert´s rebellion. Thats why Balon had to bend the knee and accept Robert as king and give his son Theon to the Starks. Balon has always hated the Starks for it so Tyrion´s idea to marry Myrcella to Theon was actually pretty clever.

#16 _Oberyn_

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

Actually all the Starks did was take Theon. Balon oldest son was killed at Seaguard and the Mallisters are Tully bannermen. The other one was killed during the colapse of the first tower in the siege of Pyke. The fleet was destroyed by Stannis. The attack on Pyke was a joined effort and any atrocities were most likely committed by the Lannisters to retaliate for the attack on Lanisport.

#17 Cherokee

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:28 PM

I think Sophie Turner continues to improve. My heart breaks for Sansa and it has a lot to do with Sophie's portrayal. She is not on the Dinklage/Headley level by any stretch but she is definitely improving, IMHO.

#18 ghost the direwolf

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

i really felt sorry for her at the dining table really Cercei is just so cruel. I did like Sansa interaction with Shae. It showed how stress she was of been an hostage always on her guard.

#19 AshleyNicole

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:05 PM

I think Sophie Turner continues to improve. My heart breaks for Sansa and it has a lot to do with Sophie's portrayal. She is not on the Dinklage/Headley level by any stretch but she is definitely improving, IMHO.

indeed, she's seriously definitely stepping up this season.

speaking of good actresses, so excited Natalie Dormer's finally on screen. She was awesome on the Tudors and I'm really looking forward to see what she does with Margaery and how the Renly/Loras triangle plays out.

#20 teamocil

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:44 PM

I'm actually confused about the Sansa situation. What exactly do the Lannisters gain by marrying Sansa to Joffrey at this point? If they were assured of victory, it might make sense to proceed with the marriage, as a means of healing over old wounds and giving the defeated Northerners a stake in the future regime. But right now, with Robb winning, the Lannisters' primary concern should be to win over new allies, and marrying Joffrey to someone else would be a great way to win new allies. So why is Sansa still the fiance, instead of just a hostage?



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