91 replies to this topic

[Lothar Imbel]

This may sound slightly hypocritical from a Greyjoy fan on calling people out on being pricks, but I can't for the life of me understand why people like him.  He seems to be an arrogant, vain and incapable of recognising that apparently kidnapping the woman who is the daughter to the head of one of Westeros' most powerful houses and betrothed to the heir of another's was a terrible idea (while being happily married himself).

On top of that, he seemed to be a bit of a Mary Stu in that he was "exceedingly intelligent and excelled at anything he put his mind to", just seems to make him a really unlikeable character, at least to me.  So why, exactly, does this man seemingly have so many fans?

[Winter's Knight]

http://asoiaf.wester...-why-the-lovin/

[FuzzyJAM]

Everybody in the books (aside from Robert) consistently says what a great guy he is in every way.  We're not actually told why he's seen as such a great guy, but there you go - take it or leave it.

I do wonder what his children thought of him as they were getting murdered after he left them for his mistress, how his wife felt with his treatment of her, and how all those who died in a war he created through adultery think of him. . .it honestly confuses me how so many characters can think so fondly of him, especially when most consider him a rapist kidnapper.

[EgoistMusketeer]

Like a lot of people that die young - Rhaegar is remembered favorably because he had the potential to be a great king... as did Aerys when he was at that age...

A lot of what we actually hear about Rhaegar, the reader should take with a grain of salt. I personally think he was on his way to Aerys levels of insanity.  He was completely delusional, believing himself to be the prince that was promised, then his son.  He read a book and decided he should become a knight.
Barristan even speculates that Arthur Dayne let Rhaegar beat him in the final tilt during the Lyanna fiasco.

[David Selig]

Beats me, he has always looked like a jerk to me for the way he treated his wife, and he was way too obsessed with prophesies. Going away with the hot girl at ToJ while the realm was being bled by a civil war caused in large part by his iiresponsible actions is another reason to dislike him.

Edited by David Selig, 15 April 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Balintos]

I think most of the characters see him as a Disney prince. He may be a good guy compared to (the mad) Aerys, but I don't like him. His wife and his children (and a lot of other people) are dead because of his "love" with Lyanna.

[Serie]

because of descriptions like this:

Quote

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name..

ACoK.

[Fire and Blood!]

FuzzyJAM, on 15 April 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Everybody in the books (aside from Robert) consistently says what a great guy he is in every way.  We're not actually told why he's seen as such a great guy, but there you go - take it or leave it.

I do wonder what his children thought of him as they were getting murdered after he left them for his mistress, how his wife felt with his treatment of her, and how all those who died in a war he created through adultery think of him. . .it honestly confuses me how so many characters can think so fondly of him, especially when most consider him a rapist kidnapper.

Rhaegar did not left his family to die. He gathered an army and personaly led it against the rebels at the moment of their deaths he himself was dead already, how can someone seriously blame him for what happend to his children? His actions before were stupid bet the most blame for startin a fill-out war falls to Aerys and his incompetent handling of the situation.

To answer the question, personaly I like Rhaegar because he himself is never shown so I can imagine him in a rather positive light maybe even much better than he actually was.

[Ice Turtle]

He gets good points because Lyanna who seems to be rather good judge of character probably loved him.

[FuzzyJAM]

Fire and Blood!, on 15 April 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Rhaegar did not left his family to die. He gathered an army and personaly led it against the rebels at the moment of their deaths he himself was dead already, how can someone seriously blame him for what happend to his children? His actions before were stupid bet the most blame for startin a fill-out war falls to Aerys and his incompetent handling of the situation.

To answer the question, personaly I like Rhaegar because he himself is never shown so I can imagine him in a rather positive light maybe even much better than he actually was.

He abandoned his children for his mistress
His children died in the war that came about because of this

What part of what I stated was incorrect?

[Ser Lepus]

As I said in another thread, We have to take into account that the westerosi have very different standards than us when it come to their leaders: Daeron II the Good was a wise, learned and just man, but many people liked Daemon Blackfyre better literally because

“Daeron was spindly and round of shoulder, with a little belly that wobbled when he walked. Daemon stood straight and proud, and his stomach was flat and hard as an oaken shield. And he could fight. With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but with the sword he was the Warrior himself.. . .Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen...Daemon, though . . . Daemon was no more pious than a king need be, and all the great knights of the realm gathered to him...Daemon was the better man" (this is a piece from The Sworn Sword).

People thought that Daemon would be a better king because he was physically strong and attractive, and a good sword fighter, while his brother Daeron had all the traits we modern people want in our rulers, but wasn´t a strong warrior...the people who liked Robert Baratheon or Rhaegar Targayren did so for the same reasons, because they were young, attractive and strong knights. Even Ser Barristan thought that being a good warrior would make Robert a decent king.

Rhaegar seem to have been a cultured man in addition to a good knight, but I think he had a darker side: he was obsessed with prophecies, which ultimately led to his downfall (obsession with prophecies seem to be a common flaw of the Targayren) and he may have had other flaws, but said obsession (his worst flaw) was a secret, and he was a handsome strong knight, which outweighs anything else for a westerosi mindset...plus he seemed to have understanded the importance of a good public image and have exploited it.

And most important of all, Rhaegar died in his prime, while Robert lived long enough to show everybody his decadence.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 15 April 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[Gurkhal]

I for one like Rhaegar and while he wouldn't be a perfect king I think he couldve been a better king than the Usurper or Joffrey. But that's from everyone talking about him like a saint, except for Robert of course but I don't think he'd like a saint.

[Fire and Blood!]

FuzzyJAM, on 15 April 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

He abandoned his children for his mistress
His children died in the war that came about because of this

What part of what I stated was incorrect?

The first part. He did not abandoned his children.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Because he is dead, a dead Targaryen is a good Targaryen But seriously, I suppose that we didn't get to know him so we have our personal idea (right or wrong) of how he was.

[FuzzyJAM]

Fire and Blood!, on 15 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

The first part. He did not abandoned his children.

So he brought his children along while he was sleeping with his mistress?

[lojzelote]

FuzzyJAM, on 15 April 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Everybody in the books (aside from Robert) consistently says what a great guy he is in every way.  We're not actually told why he's seen as such a great guy, but there you go - take it or leave it.

I do wonder what his children thought of him as they were getting murdered after he left them for his mistress, how his wife felt with his treatment of her, and how all those who died in a war he created through adultery think of him. . .it honestly confuses me how so many characters can think so fondly of him, especially when most consider him a rapist kidnapper.

The cheeky answer:
His children didn´t think anything. Aegon was too little to even do the personal hygiene by himself. Rhaenys hid under his bed if I remember it correctly, so she probably loved him and trusted him.
And BTW are you sure, that Lyanna was just a mistress?

I´m sorry, I just couldn´t resist it.

No, really, we don´t truly know how the "abduction" happened. We don´t know Rhaegar´s motives. We can´t judge.
I personally don´t love/hate Rhaegar. People in the story talk of him all the time, but it just seems to me that they never get to the core . . .

[Fire and Blood!]

FuzzyJAM, on 15 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

So he brought his children along while he was sleeping with his mistress?

Schould have he brought them?Now seriously english is not my native language so define abandon for me because for me it means leving someone permantly(forever) and he did no such thing.

[Dragonfish]

EgoistMusketeer, on 15 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Barristan even speculates that Arthur Dayne let Rhaegar beat him in the final tilt during the Lyanna fiasco.

I can't find a single quote backing this up. Could you refer me to the passage you had in mind?

FuzzyJAM, on 15 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

So he brought his children along while he was sleeping with his mistress?

No, he came back to defend his children and his wife at the Trident. Therefore, he did not abandon them.

Edited by Dragonfish, 15 April 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[Barty]

I hate rhaegar - but then again, I hate all targs equally - crazy, arrogant bastar*s. They clearly thought they were superior to everyone else - you can see this from the way rhaegar goes and just kidnaps lyanna (he obviously thought nobody would dare raise their voice against him and his father)or in the way viserys behaves and even danny's chapters are filled with nonsense about being the blood of the dragon and sh*t.

[Jamie Lannister]

I'm pretty indifferent to him. He's probably not as bad as Robert made him out to be, but he's probably not as great as... well, the rest of the world seems to think.