312 replies to this topic

[Lady Kraken]

Lord Littlefinger, on 15 April 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

where does it say that?

I don't believe Sansa actually thinks it, but it's heavily implied by Maester Coleman's reaction to Sansa telling him to give Robert more sweetsleep. I believe it's in the last Alayne chapter of AFfC.

Edited by Lady Kraken, 15 April 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[Ser Lepus]

Do you think Littlefinger is going to try to take Sansa´s "maidenhead" (I hate that expression, it makes me think of a wall full of embalmed girl heads, like hunting trophies ...but it´s how they say it) before her marriage to Harry?.

I have no doubt LF plans to become Sansa secret lover while she is married to Harry, maybe to make her pregnant with his baby, and to get rid of Harry as soon as possible in order to have her for himself only, but virginity seems  to be a big deal for the westerosi...men want to be the first for their brides...so I suspect that, since Littlefinger can´t still keep Sansa for himself, he will at least try to take her virginity (do you remember Vyseris and Dany?).

Edited by Ser Lepus, 17 April 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[James Arryn]

Lord Littlefinger, on 15 April 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

But I know the aforementioned plan is shitty.

Really, though, I doubt the Harry story too, but being shitty shouldn't discount a plan in Westeros. Especially for someone as prone to ephemeral tactics as LF. He's a hockey player, not a golfer. He's all about adjustment on the fly, live and let die.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lady Kraken, on 15 April 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I don't believe Sansa actually thinks it, but it's heavily implied by Maester Coleman's reaction to Sansa's order to give Robert more sweetsleep. I believe it's in the last Alayne chapter of AFfC.

yeah sweetsleep is poison. but there's nothing about sansa thinking anything about it, that i recall.

[eyomomo]

Ser Lepus, on 15 April 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Do you think Littlefinger is going to try to take Sansa´s "maidenhead" (I hate that expression, it makes me think of a wall full of dissecated girl heads, ...but it´s how they say it) before her marriage to Harry?.

I have no doubt LF plans to become Sansa secret lover while she is married to Harry, maybe to make her pregnant with his baby, and to get rid of Harry as soon as possible in order to have her for himself only, but virginity seems  to be a big deal for the westerosi...men want to be the first for their brides...so I suspect that, since Littlefinger can´t still keep Sansa for himself, he will at least try to take her virginity (do you remember Vyseris and Dany?).

I think he def wants her "maidenhead" (i hate that word too, it sounds too official & sex-negative to me)... ugh, in that last Alayne chapter when he tells her she should give him the kind of kiss he deserves gave me major "bad touch" feelings.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Ser Lepus, on 15 April 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Do you think Littlefinger is going to try to take Sansa´s "maidenhead" (I hate that expression, it makes me think of a wall full of dissecated girl heads, ...but it´s how they say it) before her marriage to Harry?.

I have no doubt LF plans to become Sansa secret lover while she is married to Harry, maybe to make her pregnant with his baby, and to get rid of Harry as soon as possible in order to have her for himself only, but virginity seems  to be a big deal for the westerosi...men want to be the first for their brides...so I suspect that, since Littlefinger can´t still keep Sansa for himself, he will at least try to take her virginity (do you remember Vyseris and Dany?).

  I don't know. I don't think Sansa is ever going to get married Harry in the first place.

[Lady Kraken]

Lord Littlefinger, on 15 April 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

yeah sweetsleep is poison. but there's nothing about sansa thinking anything about it, that i recall.

No, there's not. But Petyr obviously knows the effects of the stuff, and the Maester doesn't seem comfortable with continuing to give it to Robert. It could be significant in the future.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lady Kraken, on 15 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

No, there's not. But Petyr obviously knows the effects of the stuff, and the Maester doesn't seem comfortable with continuing to give it to Robert. It could be significant in the future.

of course he does. well it appears to be fat soluble, It builds up in the system over time.

[Lady Hodor]

I always thought Littlefinger just looked out for Littlefinger, regardless of dragons or white walkers.

[Lady Katherine]

Lady Kraken, on 15 April 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I don't believe Sansa actually thinks it, but it's heavily implied by Maester Coleman's reaction to Sansa telling him to give Robert more sweetsleep. I believe it's in the last Alayne chapter of AFfC.

Perhaps his plan is to marry Sansa (after getting rid of Tyrion somehow) after Robert Arryn's death.  With little Robert dead, there are no more Arryn's.  In that case, might the Vale go to Lady Lysa's side? Which, with Lysa and Catelyn dead, would be Edmure.  But Edmure is currently a prisoner of the Lannisters, so Littlefinger could be counting on the Lannisters killing him eventually.  Which in turn the Vale could go to Sansa.  He also thinks that there are no more Stark boys alive, so he believes that Winterfell is also hers.  Maybe he wants the Vale and Winterfell.  That would make him pretty powerful, being the Warden of the North and of the East.  And like Lady Hodor said above me, Littlefinger looks out for Littlefinger...

Edited by Lady Katherine, 15 April 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Raksha the Demon]

James Arryn, on 15 April 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

My problem with this kind of scenario is that he'd be an obvious murderer.

At this point his rule in the Vale needed some nice maneuvering, and this is without the Lords Delcarant suspecting him of murder. I think they mainly don't suspect him because he would seem, on the surface, to have lost his grip on power with Lysa's demise.

But if Harry and Robert follow Lysa in quick succession, with LF always there to take the reins, I think it begins to be too obvious. It may even be that his 'revelation' about Sansa's new identity will have people giving Lysa's death second thoughts. They will certainly realize that he's been scheming on some level.

Without any real power, he needs some power players on board. I think if he's still sitting there after 3 convenient deaths, that's in serious jeopardy.

LF doesn't need SweetRobin to die quickly; his feeble physical condition is fairly well known.  He can just wait, since the boy is eight years away from his majority (are they adults at 16 or 18?); and if little Robert doesn't cooperate by dying at ten or eleven or twelve, LF can manage the kid's death at 13; giving Sansa plenty of time to produce a son by Harry-the-Heir; and then a hunting accident for Harry, and Sansa is still in her prime, not even 20, and can marry Littlefinger (the fact that Sansa seems to have no attraction to Littlefinger is neither important or recognizable to him).  It also gives Littlefinger more time to win over the Lords of the Vale, or eliminate those who he can't win over.  

[Lady Kraken]

Lady Katherine, on 15 April 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Perhaps his plan is to marry Sansa (after getting rid of Tyrion somehow) after Robert Arryn's death.  With little Robert dead, there are no more Arryn's.  In that case, might the Vale would go to Lady Lysa's side? Which, with Lysa and Catelyn dead, would be Edmure.  But Edmure is currently a prisoner of the Lannisters, so Littlefinger could be counting on the Lannisters killing him eventually.  Which in turn the Vale could go to Sansa.  He also thinks that there are no more Stark boys alive, so he believes that Winterfell is also hers.  Maybe he wants the Vale and Winterfell.  That would make him pretty powerful, being the Warden of the North and of the East.  And like Lady Hodor said above me, Littlefinger looks out for Littlefinger...

This would only work if Sansa had a son by Harry, I think. The Tullys have no claim to the Vale. Lysa only had one because of Robert, so if Robert dies, Harry has the rightful claim. But if Sansa were to have Harry's child, then she and Petyr could rule the Vale through that child if Harry were to die and she married Petyr. That is a theory I have seen a few times regarding Petyr's long-term plans though I'm not sure how I actually feel about it. Sansa could potentially have a claim to Riverrun in the future, but not the Vale unless she marries Robert or Harry.

Edited by Lady Kraken, 15 April 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[eyomomo]

Lady Katherine, on 15 April 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Perhaps his plan is to marry Sansa (after getting rid of Tyrion somehow) after Robert Arryn's death.  With little Robert dead, there are no more Arryn's.  In that case, might the Vale go to Lady Lysa's side? Which, with Lysa and Catelyn dead, would be Edmure.  But Edmure is currently a prisoner of the Lannisters, so Littlefinger could be counting on the Lannisters killing him eventually.  Which in turn the Vale could go to Sansa.  He also thinks that there are no more Stark boys alive, so he believes that Winterfell is also hers.  Maybe he wants the Vale and Winterfell.  That would make him pretty powerful, being the Warden of the North and of the East.  And like Lady Hodor said above me, Littlefinger looks out for Littlefinger...

no relative of lysa's would get the vale (after roberts death). LF explained the complicated circumstances which i actually didnt fully understand, of Harry being the heir to the Vale, hence his name. Either way, i dont think Harry would be lord for too long, if LF has anything to do with it. he wants it all!

Edited by eyomomo, 15 April 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Raksha the Demon, on 15 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

LF doesn't need SweetRobin to die quickly; his feeble physical condition is fairly well known.  He can just wait, since the boy is eight years away from his majority (are they adults at 16 or 18?); and if little Robert doesn't cooperate by dying at ten or eleven or twelve, LF can manage the kid's death at 13; giving Sansa plenty of time to produce a son by Harry-the-Heir; and then a hunting accident for Harry, and Sansa is still in her prime, not even 20, and can marry Littlefinger (the fact that Sansa seems to have no attraction to Littlefinger is neither important or recognizable to him).  It also gives Littlefinger more time to win over the Lords of the Vale, or eliminate those who he can't win over.  

OK.  Maybe I didn't state this clearly enough.  This plan is stupid.  It is stupid because.  It relies on the loyalty of Sansa and his ability to kill of Harry the Heir.   The for Petyr to take possession of Harry's son and rule through him.  That is utterly inane.

[eyomomo]

Lord Littlefinger, on 15 April 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

OK.  Maybe I didn't state this clearly enough.  This plan is stupid.  It is stupid because.  It relies on the loyalty of Sansa and his ability to kill of Harry the Heir.   The for Petyr to take possession of Harry's son and rule through him.  That is utterly inane.

I know that trusting sansa may seem stupid & go against all of LF's perfectly timed & calculated moves, BUT he is, after all, a man, and as such, errs. He has obviously had this creepy obsession with Catelyn ever since he was a child, & dearest Sansa happens to be an even prettier version of young Cat. Perhaps seeing her has gummed up the works in his scheming little brain & he's just doing whatever will allow him to appear as a knight in shining armor come to her defense. As far as questioning her loyalty, what choice does she have? Mostly everyone has bent the knee and there is pretty much a price on Sansa Stark's head. It's in her best interest to play along as Alayne and go along with whatever LF tells her, even if she does realize that she is still a pawn.

[Ser Lepus]

eyomomo, on 15 April 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

no relative of lysa's would get the vale (after roberts death). LF explained the complicated circumstances which i actually didnt fully understand, of Harry being the heir to the Vale, hence his name. Either way, i dont think Harry would be lord for too long, if LF has anything to do with it. he wants it all!

Harry is the great-grandson of a Lord Arryn, and there aren´t closer relatives alive, save Sweet Robin.

[eyomomo]

Ser Lepus, on 15 April 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Harry is the great-grandson of a Lord Arryn, and there aren´t closer relatives alive, save Sweet Robin.

haha thank youuu. I knew it must make actual sense somehow.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Littlefinger is rather obsessed with maidenheads, he tells Sansa how Catelyn gave him "the gift a woman can only give once," and, iirc correctly, he lets it be known around King's Landing that he took the maidenheads of one or both of the Tully sisters.  Too bad for him that maidenheads can't be mounted and hung above the mantle like moose heads.

I can imagine a scene set the night before Sansa's marriage to Harry where Littlefinger appears to claim his prize -- after all, what better way to fuck with the family that fucked with you than to actually fuck with that family?  But nothing of the sort can happen until Tyrion is disposed of, and that's not happening any time soon, so . . .

As for the OP's theory:  LF doesn't make sacrifices for anyone, he makes people make sacrifices to him.  So no, he's not paying for a FM any time soon.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

eyomomo, on 15 April 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I know that trusting sansa may seem stupid & go against all of LF's perfectly timed & calculated moves, BUT he is, after all, a man, and as such, errs. He has obviously had this creepy obsession with Catelyn ever since he was a child

In what way is that obvious?  

Quote

, & dearest Sansa happens to be an even prettier version of young Cat.

that part is true, at least.

Quote

Perhaps seeing her has gummed up the works in his scheming little brain & he's just doing whatever will allow him to appear as a knight in shining armor come to her defense. As far as questioning her loyalty, what choice does she have? Mostly everyone has bent the knee and there is pretty much a price on Sansa Stark's head. It's in her best interest to play along as Alayne and go along with whatever LF tells her, even if she does realize that she is still a pawn.

A Lannister price.  They won't be around for much longer.  Anyway, I'm talking about in the scenario that she's married to Harry the heir.  Right now she's within Petyr's control.  But as soon as he married her off to the heir of the Vale she and Harry would be  his biggest threats.  It doesn't make sense for him to create problems for himself.  I call Bullshit.

[Lady Katherine]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 15 April 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Too bad for him that maidenheads can't be mounted and hung above the mantle like moose heads.

HA.  I laughed.  Hard