43 replies to this topic

[Winter's Knight]

Aemon thinks it is Dany because the prophecy uses a gender neutral pronoun.
But what if the prophecy uses a gender neutral because the person being talked about is neither a man nor a woman but a eunuch?

What if it's Varys?

Edited by Winterbreath, 15 April 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Lady Hodor]

It could be. But he seems to be working to put Aegon on the throne, because he believes that Aegon is TPTWP.
Or it could be that half/and/half named Sweets in the slaver's mansion where Tyrion and Penny end up

[James Arryn]

When he told the story of the Three Men, I had a sense that GRRM in some ways saw Varys as the intellectual center of the story, much as I think he kinda views Davos as the moral center.  

So it's possible. And Lady Hodor, I don't know as much about it as most, but is there anything in the PTWP legend that necessitates the P knowiing he/she/it's the PTWP?

[ghost the direwolf]

To bad for Varys as he is destroying his kingdom, then again he could rule behind the scene if Aegon get to sit the throne. that will be good and not expected if it is him.

[Apple Martini]

Lady Hodor, on 15 April 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

It could be. But he seems to be working to put Aegon on the throne, because he believes that Aegon is TPTWP.

I actually don't think he has any real interest in the prophecy. Especially if Aegon's fake.

And I would laugh quite hard if Varys ended up being the PTWP.

[Winter's Knight]

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."


It doesn't say that AA/TPTWP needs to know who he is-but it doesn't sound like Varys either.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Winterbreath, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."               

Aye, and she also says that the hero will be reborn from the sea. How meets those criteria? Not Jon. Not Bran. Not even Dany.

Could it be Theon? He was drowned as a child. Nobody would see that one coming, eh?

What about his uncle Aeron “Damphair” Greyjoy, who had a more exciting drowning? Hard to see the wildeyed religious nut as a hero.

What about good ole’ Patchface? He was dead three days under the sea, I know I know. Could he be Melisandre’s hero?  That would really bum her out, since Melisandre thinks Patches is dangerous and evil, and should be put down. But she thinks wolfboy Bran is wicked and evil, too. She isn’t very good with this stuff. So maybe Patches is the messiah.

Or could it be Davos Seaworth?  He didn’t drown, but was certainly thought dead after the incendiary Battle of the Blackwater.  As the tale’s moral center, he could also be its real hero. He’s responsible for saving Jon and the Watch by sending Stannis, plus by fetching back Rickon, Davos is also responsible for helping to fulfill Jojan’s greendream that the wolves shall return to Winterfell. Pretty heroic stuff, really. Also, Davos was “killed” and resurrected by Wyman Manderly, the merman lord.

Hey, maybe it’s Ashara Dayne.  She drowned in the sea.  Perhaps she’ll be reborn to become the hero.

Hey, Victarion fished Moqorro (or a glamoured Marwyn the Mage) out of the sea after ten days without water. That’s enough to kill any man, so he is obviously reborn. Maybe he’s the hero.

Or what about Aurane Waters? Did he just like fall off the edge of the sea, or what? Or did he pick up Loras Tyrell and dunk him into the sea to miraculously cure the knight of his like so utterly nonbelievable wounds?

Maybe it will be Varys, once he gets tossed in the sea by Tyrion? He said he’d just keep on paddling.

What about those dead things in the water that Cotter Pyke wrote of? Could one of them have a rebirth from the sea?  Or is it Pyke himself? He’s from the Iron Islands himself, so much have been drowned already.

Perhaps it’s Bran, given Jojen’s dream of everyone drowning in the sea that swept over Winterfell. Or Rickon, for that matter.

No no no, it’s none of these.  Our hero reborn from the sea is quite obviously Tyrion “Tallshadow”, whom Jon Connington pulled back from death at the cost of his own life.

[Winter's Knight]

CrypticWeirwood, on 15 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

No no no, it’s none of these.  Our hero reborn from the sea is quite obviously Tyrion “Tallshadow”, whom Jon Connington pulled back from death at the cost of his own life.

Aye, but that was freshwater.

[James Arryn]

Yeah, river, not sea.

I've been trying to pin down the hero reborn from the sea for a while, and didn't even realize that it was tied into the PTWP.

I kinda thought Davos, much as I like him, doesn't fit the Westeosi version of a hero/warrior. I hoped it wouldn't be an Ironborn; kinda too many options, none especially distinct.

I've even considered Gerion, or speculated about Jon going to Hardhome, but nothing really fits that I can find.

[dark-star]

Jon is AA and Mel is the flaming sword
                   It is known

[Lan the Clever]

Being a eunuch doesn't mean you're not a man anymore. The gender neutral pronoun is just so that it can be either a man or a woman.

[ARYa_Nym]

The Ghost of High Heart said Aerys and Rhaella's line though. That eliminates several people. AA is still a possibility. As is Great Other, lol.

[Sidonie]

Winterbreath, on 15 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Aemon thinks it is Dany because the prophecy uses a gender neutral pronoun.
But what if the prophecy uses a gender neutral because the person being talked about is neither a man nor a woman but a eunuch?

What if it's Varys?

Well, if you follow this logic, it may also be Sarella Sand/Alleras.

[Winter's Knight]

I'm still clinging to this theory.

We know that he was casterated in Myr, a seaside city and by a fire-"salt and smoke".

Major spoiler for Brandon Sanderson's Mistbornn series:

Spoiler

Similar twist was used by him and damned if I don;t catch the similarities.

[Zeromus]

Winter, on 15 April 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Aye, but that was freshwater.

Anyone but Tyrion, eh?

[Winter's Knight]

Zeromus, on 26 April 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Anyone but Tyrion, eh?

Just so.

[oba]

CrypticWeirwood, on 15 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Aye, and she also says that the hero will be reborn from the sea. How meets those criteria? Not Jon. Not Bran. Not even Dany.

Re: Dany unless the Dothraki "sea" counts . . .

[Lummel]

Winter, on 15 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Aemon thinks it is Dany because the prophecy uses a gender neutral pronoun.
But what if the prophecy uses a gender neutral because the person being talked about is neither a man nor a woman but a eunuch?...

I thought the point was that Dragons are nether male nor female but change, not that the pronoun had been misinterpreted.

Winter, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."   

That's Azor Ahai reborn - which is not necessarily the same as the prince who was promised, even though Melisandre believes they are the same person and as we all know Melisandre is always right.

[Faceless Sam]

i dont think there's a ptwp. or azor ahai. those are just fairy tales, like grumkins and snarks.

dark-star, on 15 April 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Jon is AA and Mel is the flaming sword
   It is known

mel is the great other and jon has lightbringer in his pants. it is known.

Edited by Faceless Sam, 26 April 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[Winter's Knight]

oba, on 26 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Re: Dany unless the Dothraki "sea" counts . . .

Dany was born at sea I think.