54 replies to this topic

[Barty]

I would not have ridden south with Robb but I would have taken Stannis offer and become legitimized, Gather the northern armies - kill Asha and Theon Greyjoy and all the Freys in the north as an example, marry Val and get the wildlings on my side - Kill Stannis, declare myself King in the North(Do this only if Robb declares me his heir in his will), Fortify Moat Cailin, wait for the Lions and the Roses to come North and break their strength on it. oh and also spend the winter building ships in case the ironmen want the North too or the Redwyne fleet tries to come North.

[ghost the direwolf]

I have said my vows like everybody else so this means i have no father and my family is the NW. Other people before me  have lost members of their family as well at one point, am i special  better? No I am a sworn brother of the night watch  period. no revenge  no Robb, no Arya, no Sansa, no bran and No Rickon.

[Lan the Clever]

ghost the direwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

I have said my vows like everybody else so this means i have no father and my family is the NW. Other people before me  have lost members of their family as well at one point, am i special  better? No I am a sworn brother of the night watch  period. no revenge  no Robb, no Arya, no Sansa, no bran and No Rickon.

So you're a robot?

[ghost the direwolf]

NO  the vows  are important. Ned is dead. revenge will not bring him back as Mormont said and really we all know what dear Daddy would have thought of me leaving the watch. So yes I will stay at the wall. and Ned did agree to send me to the watch as well.

Edited by ghost the direwolf, 16 April 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Lan the Clever]

ghost the direwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

NO  the vows  are important. Ned is dead. revenge will not bring him back as Mormont said and really we all know what dear Daddy would have thought of me leaving the watch. So yes I will stay at the wall. and Ned did agree to send me to the watch as well.

Well, ned wasn't the brightest one, was he? Plus, he just thought Jon would be safer there. Yeah, not very bright, old Ned Stark.

[ghost the direwolf]

On top of that if Jon shows his head at Robb camp what do you think they will do to him? chop is head off and Robb would have to be the one to do it.Jon snow was not thinking very far.

[Lan the Clever]

True. I agree in that he shouldn't have gone south then.

[MagnusPrime]

I would Stay at the Wall and like Aemon lament that the man who was my father is now dead and that my brother is possibly going to his death so i shall pray to the Old Gods to keep watch over him. I have said my vows and take no Part in the affairs of the realm. Once I am LC though everything plays out the same: Stannis, Mance & the Wildings, and the iron bank deal. Only difference is I try to explain to those who have been on the wall longer than me my reasoning for my decisions.

side note i am so sick of people picking on Ned's intelligence.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

Ned's a traitor.

Robb's a rebel.

If I'm Jon, and I ditch the wall to help Robb out, I'm a deserter.  I either force Robb to personally execute me his half brother, or I undermine his moral authority by standing by him in all my deserterness and him not killing me.  Either way I drag the family name through the mud (even though I technically don't have it!) and make it harder to win/keep allies.

I'm pissed.  I'm distracted.  I'm screaming at myself to leave that wall and help Robb kick some Lannister ass.  But if I think about it for half a second, I realize I do him way more harm than good unless I stay where I gave my word I'd stay.  I should've considered this possibility before I made a lifetime commitment like Taking The Black.  I personally probably never would've committed to the Wall in the first place, definitely not so early in life, but under the premise that I've already said the vows, I stay right where I am.  I can't help Robb anymore.

[MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth]

Sweet-N-SourRobin, on 16 April 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Ned's a traitor.

Robb's a rebel.

If I'm Jon, and I ditch the wall to help Robb out, I'm a deserter.  I either force Robb to personally execute me his half brother, or I undermine his moral authority by standing by him in all my deserterness and him not killing me.  Either way I drag the family name through the mud (even though I technically don't have it!) and make it harder to win/keep allies.

I'm pissed.  I'm distracted.  I'm screaming at myself to leave that wall and help Robb kick some Lannister ass.  But if I think about it for half a second, I realize I do him way more harm than good unless I stay where I gave my word I'd stay.  I should've considered this possibility before I made a lifetime commitment like Taking The Black.  I personally probably never would've committed to the Wall in the first place, definitely not so early in life, but under the premise that I've already said the vows, I stay right where I am.  I can't help Robb anymore.

This is a great choice, but what do you do with Stannis's offer?

[MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth]

MagnusPrime, on 16 April 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

side note i am so sick of people picking on Ned's intelligence.

Amen to that, Ned was smart, he was just honorable to a flaw, and that is what did him in not his intelligence

[atia-]

Stay at the Wall.  If I was Jon I would want to make Ned proud, and Ned, nor even Robb would want Jon to become a desserter.  Plus, I would be terrified (and probably accurately) that I would be tracked down rather quickly and get beheaded.

However, if I was asked to become Lord of Winterfell by Stannis...that's a whole different story.

[MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth]

dannister, on 16 April 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Stay at the Wall.  If I was Jon I would want to make Ned proud, and Ned, nor even Robb would want Jon to become a desserter.  Plus, I would be terrified (and probably accurately) that I would be tracked down rather quickly and get beheaded.

However, if I was asked to become Lord of Winterfell by Stannis...that's a whole different story.

So you would take Stannis's offer?

[Jorge Danger]

MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth, on 16 April 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

This is a great choice, but what do you do with Stannis's offer?

Even legitimized, I'd still be sworn. My name would be different, but my vow would be the same. Thus, I couldn't rule Winterfeel or take Val as my wife. I know that Mel claims that any oath taken in front of a weirwood is invalid as the Old Gods are false gods. But good luck to anyone who wants to try to rule the North while denouncing the Old Gods. It's an equally likely way to lose your head as deserting from the Watch.

[atia-]

MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth, on 16 April 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

So you would take Stannis's offer?

I don't know.  I've gone back and forth on that one, assuming that I'm in Jon's same position, of course.  I still firmly believe that Ned would have wanted Jon to stay at the Wall, regardless of how sweet that offer is. Not that Ned wouldn't want Jon to be Lord, but he definitely doesn't advocate people breaking their vows.  It's a toughy to just pass it up though.  I think he probably gained a bit more respect from Stannis for that, even though it annoyed the hell out of him.

ETA:  And it's a gamble, considering that Stannis could very possibly not win.

Edited by dannister, 16 April 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[Red Raven]

Quote

If I'm Jon, and I ditch the wall to help Robb out, I'm a deserter. I either force Robb to personally execute me his half brother, or I undermine his moral authority by standing by him in all my deserterness and him not killing me. Either way I drag the family name through the mud (even though I technically don't have it!) and make it harder to win/keep allies.

Yup, not to mention the warm welcome he would have gotten from Catelyn.  

As for Stannis's offer, who knows how long Stannis can keep the power that he has.  If Stannis is defeated, Jon is back at square one - a deserter - and the new ruler may de-legitimize Jon and take his head.

I'd stay on the wall and lament to Aemon, because he gets it.

[MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth]

Jorge Danger, on 16 April 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Even legitimized, I'd still be sworn. My name would be different, but my vow would be the same. Thus, I couldn't rule Winterfeel or take Val as my wife. I know that Mel claims that any oath taken in front of a weirwood is invalid as the Old Gods are false gods. But good luck to anyone who wants to try to rule the North while denouncing the Old Gods. It's an equally likely way to lose your head as deserting from the Watch.

So you would say leaving would get you beheaded?

[MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth]

Red Raven, on 16 April 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Yup, not to mention the warm welcome he would have gotten from Catelyn.  

As for Stannis's offer, who knows how long Stannis can keep the power that he has.  If Stannis is defeated, Jon is back at square one - a deserter - and the new ruler may de-legitimize Jon and take his head.

I'd stay on the wall and lament to Aemon, because he gets it.

hahahahahahahahah this is a wise choice, lamenting to Aemon because he knows is very wise, it is known

[Jorge Danger]

MrSnowBasterdofTheNorth, on 17 April 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

So you would say leaving would get you beheaded?

I would say that there's no way out of my oath at this point without some consequences.

If I'm a person who's at the Wall against my will, maybe I feel differently. Maybe then, if I find a way out, I take it. But I'm in Jon's shoes, so I'm here of my own free will. And I know what we're up against here at the end of the known world. In the end, I'd stay to fight the enemy. Because what good will Winterfell be to me if the Wall fails?

[Howling Mad]

"Hi Ygrette my name is Jon, love the hair. Would you like to meet my wolf?"