Ser Hippie, on 15 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:
So if we blame Sansa for harming her family at age 11, what do we do with Ned who basically puts his head on a platter for Cersei by
(1) Telling her his plans
(2) Refusing to work with Renly
(3) Refusing to work with LF to control Joffrey (and instead blindly accepting the gold cloaks would be his)
(4) Neglecting to take any precautions w/regards to Robert's will, instead blindly assuming it would be respected
(5) Apparently neglects to ensure the "secret" departure of his daughters is kept secret, he couldn't, you know, assign a guard to Sansa to be safe, regardless of anything else?
Sansa is 11. Ned is the highly respected and seasoned Lord and Warden of the North. Whose "betrayal" of their family warrants more scorn?
Some people seem absurdly eager to paint an eleven year old girl as some sort of nefarious Judas when Ned is the one that preciptates the disaster.
As for the earlier post about Sansa being saved by LF; sure, she gets saved by a creepy man who has sexual fantasies about her and controls her to the extent that she's trapped within his web. What a lucky girl.
I guess that's directed at me, and that wasn't my point. My point was that she was saved, she didn't do anything to get herself out of the situation. She always has other people helping her, be it Ser Dontos, the Queen of Thorns or Littlefinger. She didn't find a way to escape KL, Ser Dontos (through LF) presented her with one. Control her he might, but he also keeps her away from the Lannisters and certain death. I can't say what his plan for her is yet, and yes I find LF creepy, but she's still relatively safe, compared to how she was in KL.
As to your other points, I'm pretty sure we're discussing Sansa here, but I'll give it a stab.
Ned always did what he thought was right. I'm not going to defend all of his actions, but he never did anything for selfish reasons. He didn't want to work with Renly because Stannis was the rightful heir. He assumed that the King's dying word would be respected by his widow and 'children'. I thought he did assign guards to the girls. He (stupidly, IMHO) told his children of his plans because he trusted them, and didn't expect them to go blabbing to anyone about them. He didn't betray his family - he worked within his honour, and did what he felt was right. At the end of the day, what more can any of us do?
Golden lady, on 15 April 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:
@fire&blood , @Castel .I understand that she is a young innocent girl and she could not have done a lot. But , I don't know, something.She could have argued against the king. For example, in the day of joffrey's name day, when tyron arrives she says " my father was a traitor, I’m loyal to my beloved Joffrey ", and she continued with the idea of being betrothed to the psycho who murdered her father.
I'm not justifying the death of ned. Sansa was not guilty. He did not know how to play the game.sooner or later he was going to die. But I think that she reacted Peacefully.
I understand your points, and frustrating as it was, I could see why she behaved as she did. Her courtesy was her armour, and if she'd spoken up any more than she did, I can't imagine the punishment she would have received. By the time of Joffreys' nameday, her father had already been killed in front of her, so she knew very much what Joffrey was capable of by then. I can imagine she was terrified, left alone to be abused by people she trusted over her own family. I don't recall that she believes she betrayed her father and family for such a monster, but it becomes quite clear just how sick and evil Joffrey is. As for continuing with the betrothal, I don't think she had much choice, do you? Both Cersei and Joffrey decided that the betrothal would not be broken, and so Sansa didn't get a say in it, just like she didn't get a say in her marriage to Tyrion.
I get where you're coming from. I find it very difficult to identify with Sansa at all, and I would have loved to see Joffrey try to pull the same shit on Arya, but I can definitely see why she didn't speak out against the decisions being made for her, and the injustices and abuse done against her and her family.
Edited by Fire&Blood, 15 April 2012 - 07:24 PM.