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[Book Spoilers] Remember: The Queen mustn't know!


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77 replies to this topic

#41 atia-

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:58 PM

I think this was one of the most well-made scenes in the series so far. I didn't see how they were going to make it possible, but they did, and it was easy to understand, not confusing like many predicted. All of my non book-reader friends got it. Loved it! Dinklage is just the best. And I loved the LF scene /wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />

#42 Azerate

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:50 AM

They way I had always seen this this scene is that if not both of them (Varys/LF) had seen through the trick, still LF was more intelligent not to tell the queen right of the bat without any benefits in it for him. So in a way Pycelle just turned out to be the least witty from the trinity and got eliminated. I don't remember too clearly how it was presented in the book but I really liked the version from the series. One of the biggest problems is that the pace of the story may make some of the plot advancements not understandable for someone who didn't read the books and has to pick up everything from the rushed version, this was however very clear and probably everyone understood the point of the intrigue

Edited by Azerate, 17 April 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#43 templar7

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:19 AM

Varys would have never in a million years believed that Tyrion would send Myrcella off to the Iron Islands, other than that, great scene and cinematography.

Just because he wouldn't believe it doesn't mean he wouldn't go along with it. After all, it was Varys we find joining the Hand for a drink in the aftermath. Agreed though, great scene.

#44 boojam

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:38 AM

I don't think Tyrion is falling for the 'senile' disguise with Pycelle at all, do you? In fact, it would not surprise me at all if good ol' Ros and the other whores have been spying to report just how spry Pycelle really is. These things weren't in the book that way so its an interesting way to twist the plot in a more believable direction for Pycelle's arrest. Tyrion can say Pycelle's lying about a lot of things. Littlefinger and Varys probably already knew this anyways.


So far Pycelle has his moments, but much of the time he seems on the verge of senile dementia.
How old is the old coot anyway? He may have mental inclination for rumpy pumpy but only the stones for fiddling and diddling.


#45 boojam

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:40 AM

Just because he wouldn't believe it doesn't mean he wouldn't go along with it. After all, it was Varys we find joining the Hand for a drink in the aftermath. Agreed though, great scene.

I have not read CoK is a long long time, and my recollection was that he was Tyrions ally from the get go, I must be misremembering.


#46 Vvornth

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:49 AM

I don't like it how Petyr Baelish is lacking in the power plays in the series. We saw his lapse in subtlety in the last episode and what it got him, this ep he was decieved by a fairly simple ploy by Tyrion.

I think this is a strange way to handle a character that after all is supposed to have orchastrated the entire war and is always a couple of steps ahead of everyone else.

#47 DemiNymph

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:59 AM

I liked the clever editing. It brought off very clearly that he was giving 3 stories to 3 different people. I was afraid I would have to explain the plot but the way this scene was presented made it very clear to a non-reader.

#48 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

This reminded me of a scene in another HBO show; season 2 of Boardwalk Empire, the protagonist gave a speech to members of the black community and they spliced it together with a speech to Ku Klux Klan supporters. Both very, very clever scenes.

#49 Auska

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:28 AM

Actually, my reading of the Varys bit was that he didn't believe it for a second, and guessed what Tyrion was up to. He was then able to make sure he appeared to be Tyrion's 'friend'. I hope that's what was intended, because if so it just makes it all the more interesting.


Same. I actually also got the feel that Littlefinger figured it out. There was that brief pause before plastering a big grin on his face.

#50 Mulled Wino

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Just because he wouldn't believe it doesn't mean he wouldn't go along with it. After all, it was Varys we find joining the Hand for a drink in the aftermath. Agreed though, great scene.


More likely Varys would just see how it played out, but I'm quite sure he wouldn't have followed along with that one just yet. There's already enough turmoil in the realm, and lets remember who Varys really serves. He isn't really working for Tyrion, its more that he eventually creates a role for Tyrion in his own plans.

#51 Purah

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:01 AM

The episode was brilliant and a sigh of relief for me really as I was starting to worry about what direction HBO where going. Loved Tyrion. Loved how the scenes bled into each other. Loved Varys. And I actually fell back in love with Littlefinger after the last two episodes (it was nice to see him back on form and out of a brothel) /wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' /> .
And how true the LF scene was to the book, I just loved that! You could almost see the little cogs in his head tick-tick-ticking away in trying to figure out Tyrion's motive, and not to mention the insatiable greed and ambition of the man.

#52 lmanion

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:11 AM

I think he tells Varys this plan knowing full well that Varys would never believe it and their interaction is them basically having the understanding that Tyrion is feeding Varys a load of BS, but Varys should play along with it. I always read it that in the books Varys was willing to help Tyrion and be his friend in a way, perhaps seeing tyrion as a way to settle down the realm until his and Illyrio's plans were ready to go.

#53 gmoney88

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

This reminded me of a scene in another HBO show; season 2 of Boardwalk Empire, the protagonist gave a speech to members of the black community and they spliced it together with a speech to Ku Klux Klan supporters. Both very, very clever scenes.


your right they are similar, I had forgotten about that. that was a great scene. I love to see directors do risky and ambitious things like this, really take advantage of the medium.

That was probably the best scene of the series so far. Perfectly shot, perfectly edited, perfectly acted.

They advanced the plot, developed 4 characters, and did it in an amazingly entertaining way, in only a few minutes. Scenes like this work wonders, not gratuitous sex.

#54 Bolivar

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

It was a great example of adaptation - using the strengths of a different medium to portray the events in another. Some of the acting was a little farfetched, I think Littlefinger's portrayal is worse this season and the writing original dialogue is puzzling since it's so much more convincing and better written in the books, but this was still a great scene and I think the season is definitely getting better.

#55 Maester Nikolas

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:35 AM

The editing made it spectacular- just when I thought Tyrion was making a repetition to Pycelle BAM! Varys comes on screen. Beautiful bit of screenplay there, wonderful cinematography, and Tyrion was so "honest" and everyone else so quick to jump [Barring Varys] that it made it deliciously humorous. Littlefinger seems to be slipping doesn't he? He's certainly getting more greedy, but the preview for the next episode seems to imply he'll be back to his wonderful [Read: Despicable] plotting self.

Also, did anyone else catch the name of whoever it was Shae served before she came to Westeros? I wonder if we'll finally know her backstory...

#56 lightbringer333

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:58 AM

very intelligent guy tyrion. he knows how to play his cards.

#57 Fredwin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

Any thoughts on why they opted for that change?
I know it seems like only a minor thing, but it bothers me.


The change was for the audience. It's so they understand exactly what Tyrion is doing, selling different versions of the same story to 3 different people.

#58 Vandalism

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:04 AM

Excellent scene. Maintained the characters' personalities well and was just a dose of thrilling, venomous politics. Tyrion was amazing as usual.

#59 Chelly

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:11 AM

Tyrion was so much fun ACoK. I liked how they transitioned the scenes between Pycelle, Varys, and LF. It was definitely one of the funner parts in the episode. Tyrion is so slick.

#60 DornishKnight

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

I don't like it how Petyr Baelish is lacking in the power plays in the series. We saw his lapse in subtlety in the last episode and what it got him, this ep he was decieved by a fairly simple ploy by Tyrion.

I think this is a strange way to handle a character that after all is supposed to have orchastrated the entire war and is always a couple of steps ahead of everyone else.

I'll play devil's advocate. Petyr (rightly) considers Cersei an arrogant fool, he miscalculates in thinking she appreciates him and can be intimidated by him. Although the scene seems out of character for LF in the books, there is basis for it in the fact that he does suffer from overconfidence (which I believe will be his ultimate undoing).
Tyrion, on the other hand, is as good a player as LF is (though neither is in Varys' league). It does make sense that Tyrion could outwit him.