85 replies to this topic

[Travex]

It seems rather likely that the results of Cersei and Margaery's trials will happen in the begining of TWoW and serve as a catalyst for things to come. I would like to speculate on the results of these two trials. As we all know, GRRM likes to "deceive" the reader and what you think it is going to happen most likely won't. So first we must look at what GRRM has led us to believe will happen.

Cersei: With Robert Strong aka The Mountain as her champion, victory would seemingly be assured for Cersei as only a handful of men stand a chance of opposing him.

Margaery: As far as the reader knows, she is actually innocent of the crimes Cersei attempted to pin on her. Also the High Septon let her go but kept Cersei prisoner. There seems to be no reason as to why she would lose.

But let's face it, that would be boring as hell. If both of these things happen we can assume that Cersei would resume her Regency and tentative alliance with the Tyrells. They would then presumably march to the Stormlands and squash Aegon's little uprising. Obviously we didn't get introduced to Aegon just to see him epically fail so soon. So here is what I think will happen...

Cersei: The Hound is the Faith's champion and pwns Gregor OR Qyburn betrays Cersei. It's been a while since we've had a major character death.

Margaery: She is found guilty. Not sure how it's gonna happen but I just think it will..

The results being the Tyrells are forced to take power in King's Landing via military strength. Probably just say fuck it to the line of succession and just establish a Tyrell dynasty. The Dornish then have no reason to not declare for Aegon (real or fake) and shit goes down.

[Nfestid]

I think that Loras will come back from Dragonstone and join the faith to kill Ser Gregor during the trial by battle.

[girlfrommonday]

Travex, on 16 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Margaery: She is found guilty. Not sure how it's gonna happen but I just think it will..

Margaery will be found guilty and we will see conflict between High Septon and The Tyrells - it is time to establish The Faith as a Player, so far they only gather strength...
I'm looking forward for Tyrells move: king Tommen or king Aegon? For sure Queen Margaery with Aegon they can sack King's Landing and with new power change the High Septon. King Tommen: they already have power and with Aegon in Stormlands Cersei need The Tyrells - maybe both Cersei and Mace will try to remove High Septon and make The Trials invalid? And will see epic politic/military fight with The Faith? (weakness of the theory is Cersei craziness, I can't guess what she will do)
I totally don't believe in establishing a Tyrell dynasty. With the support of who? They are not that stupid.

[Nebmai]

The worst thing Cersei did was let the Faith arm like that, she was so terrible at ruling; on my second re-read I was switching between laughing at how incompetent she was at it, to being amazed how she really is bipolar style unbalanced crazytime.

[Clueless Northman]

Travex, on 16 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Obviously we didn't get introduced to Aegon just to see him epically fail so soon.

Quentyn Martell begs to differ.

[Arkash]

Quote

Quentyn Martell begs to differ.

He, himself failed, but he still released the dragons which will be determinant and completly mad players at the Battle of Fire.



I agree, Cersei was totally crazy by rearming the Faith... all Westeros needed was a religious war... just add to this the coming Greyscale and Winter, and well... future looks sinister in Westeros.

As for the Cersei now, I think I'm the only one who thinks she is totally and irremediably broken by what she's been through. I dont think she's planning anything of playing a game of hers, I really think she's somehow, really broken.

[Fragile Bird]

I think there is a very interesting scene in AFFC that may come into play at Margaery's trial.  Just before the wedding Cersei demands that Jaime spend the wedding night in the room with Margaery and Tommen.  Jaime thinks this is crazy, because Tommen is too young to do anything.  Cersei makes her incredibly stupid comment about Ossifer Plumm being too dead to have children but has a child anyway (really foreshadowing of Cersei possibly being pregnant, I think), Jaime not knowing who Plumm is.  After more nagging, Jaime agrees to spend the night in the room.

But this is a scene we never see, not when it happens, not in Jaime's POV.  Always suspicious, IMHO, in a GRRM novel.  Somehow I think some accusation is going to arise out of the wedding night.

ETA:  My suspicion is, if the rift between Cersei and Jaime widens, there could be an accusation against Jaime.

Edited by Fragile Bird, 19 April 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Ernestm]

Arkash, on 19 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

He, himself failed, but he still released the dragons which will be determinant and completly mad players at the Battle of Fire.



I agree, Cersei was totally crazy by rearming the Faith... all Westeros needed was a religious war... just add to this the coming Greyscale and Winter, and well... future looks sinister in Westeros.

As for the Cersei now, I think I'm the only one who thinks she is totally and irremediably broken by what she's been through. I dont think she's planning anything of playing a game of hers, I really think she's somehow, really broken.

I agree with you, but I think she still has some stuff left in her, cause it is Cersei, she'll do all she can for Tommenn

[Daario]

I think Jamie will be home by the time the trials happen, somehow Cersei realising that Jamie is now the least able swordsman of the Kingsguard will conspire to have him be Margaerys champion. Possibly Lancel will be the faiths champion.
Jamie will kill Lancel, but realise now that Cersei is truly gone and no longer means anything to him.

[Arkash]

That would be too dramatic... even more dramatic and cliché than the Clegane brothers fight... and I can barely stand for a Clegane fight... to cheesy...

[Eggplant Wizard]

There is no way Jaime goes down like that. He's not going down like a punk. Also I forgot he stayed in the room with Tommen and Margaery, that's a good point.

[darrylzero]

Daario, on 19 April 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

I think Jamie will be home by the time the trials happen, somehow Cersei realising that Jamie is now the least able swordsman of the Kingsguard will conspire to have him be Margaerys champion. Possibly Lancel will be the faiths champion.
Jamie will kill Lancel, but realise now that Cersei is truly gone and no longer means anything to him.

I like that, but Jaime beating the Faith's champion should occur after Robert Strong kills Lancel.

[cancerman]

As for Marg being found guilty and executed, well, I find that would be anti-climatic of living up to playing the succession of "Queen of Thorns" or at least in tandem with the QoT.  Seems like a rather simple end for what, I think, is a cunning character or an essential piece for a cunning character, the QoT.  And learning Marg's reactions thus far through Cersei, well, seems like a rather naive character to just await judgment.  Perhaps the Tyrells are working with The Faith?

But just as well, Marg's death could spur and incite more decisive action from the Tyrells.  Who really knows?  Martin sure does like to take unexpected turns.

[romantic]

Sandor won't fight against Cersei's champion because I don't think he will know who Ser Robert Strong is until the fight is over. Also I don't think he would ever fight to prove Cersei innocent.
My (possibly crackpot) theory is that Sansa will be captured and return to King's Landing sometime after Cersei's champion wins and proves Cersei's innocence. Sansa will realise any trial is rigged and ask for trial by combat to extend her life as long as possible. Sandor will turn up at the last minute (possibly disguised in full armour) and fight an epic battle against Ser Robert Strong, facing his fear of fire in a last ditch attempt to kill Strong. It may be cheesy but there's a reason I picked this name.

[Miriamele]

I think Cersei is going to live for a while and she'll be more dangerous than before. She acted all the time like a spoiled little princess, making stupid decisions (like arming the faith) and surrounding himself with people who flattered her, and didn't listen to anyone sensible's counsel. Now she got a sharp lesson.
She'll try to be more cunning from now on. Her brokenness seemed like a role she was playing.

[iamthedave]

The obvious results are likely to happen in this case.

Margaery isn't going to be proven guilty. The case against her is feeble, so the only reason the faith would want to declare her guilty is as a power play. The problem with this is that the Tyrells already turned up on their doorstep with an army and politely asked for their daughter back. The faith, not being suicidal, politely obliged. The Tyrells are never going to accept that Marg is guilty (nor should they because she isn't).

Furthermore, that would essentially mean the Septon sides with the Lannisters, whose power is shattered. This is why Cersei is such a moron: without the Tyrells the Lannisters are a paper lion. Their own strength is broken from losses in the field and in the command structure while the Tyrells are largely untouched.

In fact the best outcome for all concerned is Margaery gets off and Cersei goes down.

This is why the outcome will be for both to get off and go at each other's throats.

This is why Varys will make sure it happens.

[Blackfyre Bob]

Well, Cersei clearly has no fan club here.  IMO she's going to survive the trial of the faith, cause some ruckus, and eventually eat Jaime's sword.  I really like the character, however, I find it strange that someone with such a low cunning is able to outwit and outplay so many individuals in Westeros.  I'd like to believe that some of these individuals were leading her to her own demise, at least poliltically, and that Cersei is effectively removed from the game of thrones.

[King Bolton 1990]

I think in the next book both Cersei and Mace Tyrell will fight each other for power in Kings Landing. Cersei safe from the faith in Maegor's Holdfast and Kevan's not there to make her go to trial . In AFFC we saw Cersei with true power for the first time but now she is going to blame the Tyrell Family for Kevan's death and probably bar the gates to Maegor's have Mace killed and any other Tyrell she can get hands on and start full scale riots all across the the city and have her new Kingsgaurd Robert Strong do a lot a lot killing

[A Man]

Travex, on 16 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

But let's face it, that would be boring as hell. If both of these things happen we can assume that Cersei would resume her Regency and tentative alliance with the Tyrells.

I disagree with this premise. First, I think Kevan was right, even if she's found innocent Cercei won't regain the regency or any sort of alliance with the Tyrells. And I'm inclined to suspect a Tyrell conspiracy (Margaery as Olenna's protege, Loras isn't really dying, etc), perhaps even colluding with The Faith. If that's the case, we certainly wouldn't need Margaery to be convicted to fuel conflicts and major events at Kings Landing.

[kwvapor]

Robert Strong is there to ensure Cersei makes a comeback.  With the death of Kevin, Cersei has a chance to use the coin and Faith to go at it with the Tyrells.

Like Varys wants, he doesn't want a unity government or a quick decisive victory for High Garden or the Rock.  This makes them oblivious to the potential landslide coming from Dorne and Young Griff.

Newly enlightened, Cersei joins hands with the Faith-based movement.  In her comeback, we'll see a new Cersei, one more sinister than before or more... something.  

Just my prediction of the starting points in KL, within WoW.

Edited by Censored Wolf, 07 May 2012 - 05:25 PM.