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[Book Spoilers] We Do Not Sow


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#1 The Bastard of Bolton

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:41 AM

I felt the portrayal of the Greyjoys was phenomenal this episode.
Alfie really blew me away with his acting.
Balon and his exchanges were very powerful.
Yara had a certain strength to her as well.
I like how we are made to understand why Balon would make such a rash move.
Theons internal struggle was well fleshed out given the time constraints and his rebirth scene was intense.
It was the most moving and captivating storyline for me tonight.

#2 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

Balon's actions are rash because his is so short sighted and hellbent on revenge that he passes up the riches of Casterly Rock in order to take revenge on the North and Winterfell. I want all of the Ironborn to die!

#3 Lothar Imbel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

So you'd be perfectly happy if the Ironborn attacked the Westerlands, killing and raping hundreds but not the North?

#4 Greywolf2375

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

So you'd be perfectly happy if the Ironborn attacked the Westerlands, killing and raping hundreds but not the North?

Pretty sure that wasn't the posters point.

Thought Theon throwing back at his father that it was not his own choice to go with the Starks - showed a lot more spine than he had previously. Still over all enjoying the way they are portrayed, and even getting the name Sea Bitch included.

#5 Mulled Wino

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:53 AM

Pretty sure that wasn't the posters point.

Thought Theon throwing back at his father that it was not his own choice to go with the Starks - showed a lot more spine than he had previously. Still over all enjoying the way they are portrayed, and even getting the name Sea Bitch included.


That was my favorite part as well. I was wondering why he didnt do it in the books. I think it shows that he is an Ironborn and he should have received more respect from Balon because of it.

Funniest part was Sea Bitch.

#6 Mulled Wino

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

So you'd be perfectly happy if the Ironborn attacked the Westerlands, killing and raping hundreds but not the North?


I for one would, considering how much raping and killing the Westerners do to kick the war off.

#7 Iron Captain

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

The addition of Theon yelling back at his father was great, and the letter scene was a nice way to show Theon's internal struggle followed by his hesitant rebirth as an ironborn.

I can see why Balon wouldn't want to ally with Robb, but you would think he'd be more willing to go against the Lannisters. The western armies also helped subdue the rebellion, and Joffrey "Baratheon" is the son of the man who put the rebellion down.

#8 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:03 PM

So you'd be perfectly happy if the Ironborn attacked the Westerlands, killing and raping hundreds but not the North?

Not perfectly happy, how did you come to that? I thought that the question was, why did Balon make such a rash move? He made the rash, more like stupid, move out of lust for revenge. Casterly Rock has gold, the Northlands has snow. So, which one do you think is the smartest move? Large un-ruleable North, or unprotected Casterly Rock, sitting upon goldmines. But, being that the Ironborn do not sow, they would be too lazy to mine for it anyway. Theon suffers the shortsighted stupidity, because he could have warned Robb, taken out his father and sister and had the Rock for himself. Anyway, people are going to die regardless, it really doesn't matter where.

Edited by Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, 16 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.


#9 _Oberyn_

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

That was my favorite part as well. I was wondering why he didnt do it in the books. I think it shows that he is an Ironborn and he should have received more respect from Balon because of it.

Funniest part was Sea Bitch.

His father laid a stinging backhand across his cheek. "Mind your tongue. You are not in Winterfell now, and I am not Robb the Boy, that you should speak to me so. I am the Greyjoy, Lord Reaper of Pyke, King of Salt and Rock, Son of the Sea Wind, and no man gives me a crown. I pay the iron price. I will take my crown, as Urron Redhand did five thousand years ago."
Theon edged backward, away from the sudden fury in his father’s tone. "Take it, then," he spat, his cheek still tingling. "Call yourself King of the Iron islands, no one will care... until the wars are over, and the victor looks about and spies the old fool perched off his shore with an iron crown on his head."
Lord Balon laughed. "Well, at the least you are no craven. No more than I’m a fool.



I still think the book is better.

#10 boojam

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:12 PM

Not perfectly happy, how did you come to that? I thought that the question was, why did Balon make such a rash move? He made the rash, more like stupid, move out of lust for revenge. Casterly Rock has gold, the Northlands has snow. So, which one do you think is the smartest move? Large un-ruleable North, or unprotected Casterly Rock, sitting upon goldmines. But, being that the Ironborn do not sow, they would be too lazy to mine for it anyway. Theon suffers the shortsighted stupidity, because he could have warned Robb, taken out his father and sister and had the Rock for himself. Anyway, people are going to die regardless, it really doesn't matter where.

My impression was, don't know if George meant to make it that way, Balon had a bit of screw loose about the Northlands.
Taking the coast was one thing, but as we shall see holding it another.

By the by not sure why Theon's 'fleet' was changed from 8 to 1, that was already a humiliation.
Victarion and rest of the Iron fleet is not mentioned at all.

Well Asha is about to disappear from the story for a long time, by the end of S2 even Theon, or any Iron Born... I am curious to D&D are going to do about this.
The Iron Born are on an arc to play an important part but they stay on the edges of the story even through ADwD.


#11 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

My impression was, don't know if George meant to make it that way, Balon had a bit of screw loose about the Northlands.
Taking the coast was one thing, but as we shall see holding it another.

By the by not sure why Theon's 'fleet' was changed from 8 to 1, that was already a humiliation.
Victarion and rest of the Iron fleet is not mentioned at all.

Well Asha is about to disappear from the story for a long time, by the end of S2 even Theon, or any Iron Born... I am curious to D&D are going to do about this.
The Iron Born are on an arc to play an important part but they stay on the edges of the story even through ADwD.

The Ironborn are reavers. The can only related to rape, pillage and burning. They cannot fathom inking out a living in any other way. Balon is an old man, and old people can rarely see anything new. If they were to head West, they would only take what they could easily get their hands on still be broke and living on the dismal Pyke once that money ran out. Victarion and Euron do not make an appearance until after Balon dies, if I am correct.

#12 isiman

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

Theon suffers the shortsighted stupidity, because he could have warned Robb, taken out his father and sister and had the Rock for himself. Anyway, people are going to die regardless, it really doesn't matter where.


I don't think that he could, he was probably being watched.

#13 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

I don't think that he could, he was probably being watched.

He had the letter in his hand and burned it, no?

#14 Independent George

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:48 PM

The Ironborn are reavers. The can only related to rape, pillage and burning. They cannot fathom inking out a living in any other way. Balon is an old man, and old people can rarely see anything new. If they were to head West, they would only take what they could easily get their hands on still be broke and living on the dismal Pyke once that money ran out. Victarion and Euron do not make an appearance until after Balon dies, if I am correct.


But Harren himself ruled the Riverlands for many years before the Targaryan invasion.

#15 Mulled Wino

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:55 PM

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I still think the book is better.


I think Baelon is better in the book, not Theon's part.

#16 Envie

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

I felt the portrayal of the Greyjoys was phenomenal this episode.
Alfie really blew me away with his acting.
Balon and his exchanges were very powerful.
Yara had a certain strength to her as well.
I like how we are made to understand why Balon would make such a rash move.
Theons internal struggle was well fleshed out given the time constraints and his rebirth scene was intense.
It was the most moving and captivating storyline for me tonight.


I agree with you 100% In fact, I am starting to like the Greyjoy story arc more in the HBO series than I did in the books. There are SO many good stories from the various houses that its hard to remember some of them when you have your favorites of course... but I feel like the producers took Theon's story, and what a tragedy it is and really ran with it... it makes EXCELLENT television drama.

I'm going to confess, I actually felt like crying watching Alfie play Theon in the scenes with his salt water baptism and the burning of the letter. It was that powerful. I think because I know what ends up happening with Theon made it that much worse. I feel so damn sorry for this kid, yes even though he does some terrible crap and kills little kids at Winterfell. I feel like the show is making that future incident more believable and you can actually understand how very desperate Theon was to impress and win back his family's love. It's just tragic. He had no choice in any of it and it was hearbreaking to watch him pledge himself so fully and with such longing.

#17 Envie

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

PS: great commentary by the producers in this video "Inside the Episode" just posted:

http://www.youtube.c...ture=plpp_video

They really do show how artistically dramatic that scene with Theon's baptism by sea water was meant to be. The tangible longing on Theon's face in contrast to the hard, bitter faces of the Ironborn, shrouded in steel grays, stormy blues of the sea, the sky etc. It was amazingly powerful.

#18 The Bastard of Bolton

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

So you'd be perfectly happy if the Ironborn attacked the Westerlands, killing and raping hundreds but not the North?


Not sure where that was derived from.
I just like that they at least made an effort to portray that Theon was tortured by this decision and that there was a lot of emotions and confusion involved.
Who can imagine what is like to be taken away as a boy. The Starks were great to him but still he always knew he was just a hostage.

#19 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

But Harren himself ruled the Riverlands for many years before the Targaryan invasion.

That was Harren. Please cite what the Ironborn have done since then? Nothing, other than reaving, which is why the Pyke is dirt poor compared to the other territories. Asha notes that in one of the books.

Edited by Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, 16 April 2012 - 02:25 PM.


#20 IronSuitor

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

Dinklage deservedly gets all the press, but Alfie Allen and the guy who plays Balon quietly delivered one of the best pieces of acting in the show so far last night (They were helped by amazing camerawork as well).

One thing the show has over the books is the ability to use the human face. Balon came off as a stupid prick who was terrible to his son and made stupid choices in the books. He's all of those things in the show, but that one shot where Theon yells about him abandoning his only son as Balon walks out made him more human than the books ever did.

You could see the shame on his face, and it made it clearer than the books ever could that he is the way he is not because he is stupid or because he doesn't love Theon, but because the shame of that defeat has become who he is.