176 replies to this topic

[Salome Sand Witch]

Ok, I must admit, I was a little surprised to see that they chose to portray Margaery Tyrell far "sexier" with her feminine wiles than the character of Cersei!

I think it's fair to say that in the books she's certainly intelligent, aware, and goes out of her way to portray herself as the "perfect companion", so to have her so obviously sexy in front of everyone at Renly's tournament was shocking to me.

Also the fact that Loras stated the official story is that Margaery is still a virgin was interesting.  That's a piece of information that has been left in question in the books.  I'm wondering if this small piece was artistic license, or whether that's information GRRM gave the producers that has not been disclosed/confirmed in the books yet.  Hmmmmm.

[Mulled Wino]

I think Margery's wholesomeness come into play much later in the books, specifically after the Joffrey-Margery alliance is considered.

I always got the impression that Margery was all about playing the game and was shrewd, saavy, and a bit conniving.  She was privy to the plot to get Sansa out of Kings landing and was well aware of what she was getting into with the little horror that is Joffrey Lannister.

Her attractiveness was mentioned over and over in the books and she seemed a little bit of a temptress to me the way characters would speak about her.

[Iron Captain]

Yeah I was surprised by the Loras line as well, but obviously we've already seen numerous things in the show that were left to the imagination (Renly being gay, Stannis sleeping with Melisandre), even if strongly hinted at in the books.

I'm ok with Margery's portrayal, both in terms of being sexy and her being more of a player in the game.  In the books we saw her subtley manipulate Tommen, but we never really knew if she knew how to play the game or if she just followed the queen of thorns' orders.  This is more direct, but it saves one more character for the TV followers to have to learn.

[sennahoj]

I don't mind Margaery having a more active role in the tv series this early on, but I think both Margaery's dress and her behaviour were a bit inappropriate. Generally, the costumes on the show are great, but I thought the gown she wears at the tournament was a bit too revealing for a supposedly virgin of noble birth in a medievalish society. And the way she casually took off her clothes in the tent scene with Renly was a bit too soft-porn cheesy, and it reminded me too much of how the whores in Littlefinger's brothels behave. Even if the "officially still a virgin" bit means she in fact isn't, the overall portrayal doesn't befit a lady who at least pretends to be a virgin. Dormer's portrayal of her makes Margaery appear just appear as promiscuous as Dormer's Anne Boleyn, considering she has only been on screen for a couple of minutes, and I'm unsure whether that was what the writers were going for.

[Ski the Swift]

Iron Captain, on 16 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Yeah I was surprised by the Loras line as well, but obviously we've already seen numerous things in the show that were left to the imagination (Renly being gay, Stannis sleeping with Melisandre), even if strongly hinted at in the books.

I'm ok with Margery's portrayal, both in terms of being sexy and her being more of a player in the game.  In the books we saw her subtley manipulate Tommen, but we never really knew if she knew how to play the game or if she just followed the queen of thorns' orders.  This is more direct, but it saves one more character for the TV followers to have to learn.

Is there a chance that they are maybe cutting the Queen of Thorns role? Making Margery more intelligent and being able to play the game can make her fill in the role of organizing PW.

[Thunderfist]

Ski the Swift, on 16 April 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Is there a chance that they are maybe cutting the Queen of Thorns role? Making Margery more intelligent and being able to play the game can make her fill in the role of organizing PW.

I hope not, the QoT rocks!

[Envie]

C'mon guys, this is HBO - you knew they already put sexuality up there as an important factor to draw fans in and help them identify or 'like' many of the female characters.

You're shocked they have Margaery wearing a very low cut gown, but not so shocked Melisandre does the same "look what I have inside my dress" trick with Stannis in the previous episode? Really? I mean come on, we're talking about stone face STANNIS here... that's so out of character haha!

Ok ok, sure - Margaery is 'supposed' to be a young maiden, virgin like even if you believe one theory or the other. But do you really believe that's how she was written in the book? This woman got into every strategic political alliance possible and has a manipulative sly grandmother pulling a huge number or strings behind the scenes. I can definitely see that being tranlated and exaggerated to a far more beguiling real life character in the show. They want you to see how willing Margaery is to make the Tyrells into a royal family at any cost. She was that way in the books too but Martin just didn't give a lot of details about her personal looks and motivators... it was left up to the imagination of the reader. Apparently a lot of you imagined her a lot more innocent looking. Don't go too far down the 'medieval' expectation of women of the time period this story was based on because this was a fantasy world, not Earth historical medieval. It's quite possible, as sexual as many were in George's world, that they dressed more revealingly all the time.

Also, it was never written so explicitly that Renly was gay in the books either, yet HBO has displayed him much moreso than a mere 'hint' of it. Viewers are bashed over the head with it just as they are sexuality in general. Sex sells and Margaery uses her one gift (beauty) to advance her family's desires for power. She clearly has been taught from a young age how to use that gift and play the game of thrones masterfully as a potential Queen. I thought it was great.

[BloodOfKingu]

Envie, on 16 April 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Also, it was never written so explicitly that Renly was gay in the books either

i am always surprised when people say they didn't realize that renly is gay. i thought it was pretty much spelled out in the text.

anyway...

i didn't quite like the new sexy-marge at first, but i warmed to the character a lot more when she showed she really does have a brain and a strong grasp of politics.

[Chise]

sennahoj, on 16 April 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

but I think both Margaery's dress and her behaviour were a bit inappropriate.

   THIS!
I couldn't agree more on her clothes.... did the designers get drunk and forget that they aren't making clothes for Ros & King's Landing whores or what....

Her behavior didn't really bother me as much. Must be getting desensitized with HBO bashing us on the head with SEX!! all the damn time. I really do prefer the light touch the books did around Marg, Loras/Renly and Mel instead. Implies just enough, but doesn't just come out and show it direct

Margaery trying to consummate the marriage with shiny new King kinda made perfect sense.. but that awful dress *facepalm* its not just the hole-stripe down the front, but did they have to put beads to call extra attention to it too !?!

Edited by Chise, 16 April 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Envie]

BloodOfKingu, on 16 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

i am always surprised when people say they didn't realize that renly is gay. i thought it was pretty much spelled out in the text.

You're twisting what I said. I never said I didn't realize Renly is gay from the books!  I said it wasn't written explicitly like it is in the show. Renly never had multiple sex scenes in the book with Loras, never even kissed him or flirted or came close to it - so don't even try to say the book was as obvious as what we're watching (repeatedly) with sex scenes on the series. My point in saying that was to show how over the top obvious they play some things which in turn can translate to far more revealing and sexy costumes and behaviors from other characters like Melisandre and now Margaery.

Show me where in the text of the book this is 'spelled out' and I'll agree with you a little more that readers should realize Renly was gay but not everyone did.

[Ski the Swift]

BloodOfKingu, on 16 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

i am always surprised when people say they didn't realize that renly is gay. i thought it was pretty much spelled out in the text.

anyway...

i didn't quite like the new sexy-marge at first, but i warmed to the character a lot more when she showed she really does have a brain and a strong grasp of politics.

And her breasts right?

[Ser Elfor the Landstander]

I loved this interpretation of Margaery.

It certainly makes me rethink my own vision of this character, but it makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
Loras was shown (in the books) to have a very intimate relationship with his sister, so it's only obvious that she knew about his sexual preference. And if she was around him and Renly, it's also obvious that someone who isn't completely blind would pick up a few things.

And about the inappropriate behaviour/clothes, I got the feeling it was meant to show her as a stronger, more aggressive person. Yes, that dress left little to the imagination, but I saw it as an extension of her personality. She isn't afraid to tell the truth, even to a king. It worked for me.

[Debb2]

I loved the portrayal of Margaery. My reading of the book left me unsure whether she's naive and virginal or knowing and cunning. I like the choice the programme made and am really looking forward to her story line.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

is HBO canon? Cuz if it is then was Cersei right about the incest?
And Natalie Dormer is way hot and did a great job as Margaery

[Pliny]

Salome Sand Witch, on 16 April 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Ok, I must admit, I was a little surprised to see that they chose to portray Margaery Tyrell far "sexier" with her feminine wiles than the character of Cersei!

I think it's fair to say that in the books she's certainly intelligent, aware, and goes out of her way to portray herself as the "perfect companion", so to have her so obviously sexy in front of everyone at Renly's tournament was shocking to me.

Also the fact that Loras stated the official story is that Margaery is still a virgin was interesting.  That's a piece of information that has been left in question in the books.  I'm wondering if this small piece was artistic license, or whether that's information GRRM gave the producers that has not been disclosed/confirmed in the books yet.  Hmmmmm.

The dress was certainly something one notices right away!
Have you noticed that the different regions seem to have their own clothing customs for women? In the North the women wear woolen gowns with those gathered-collared blouses underneath, in King's Landing the ladies wear gowns of lighter fabric, but with a kimono-inspired wrap, and in the Vale the gowns are draped and gathered in the front (which I found to be reminiscent of wings)? Highgarden in supposed to be warm, and so perhaps the gowns there are all deeply cut. I guess that will be interesting when we meet the Queen of Thorns (if we meet her at all, somebody suggested her character might be merged with Margery. That seems entirely likely to me).

She's not as I'd pictured her, though. Oh well.

Edit: just wanted to add that I LOVE the dresses the prostitutes wear in King's Landing. I need one of those for this summer! I might prefer it cut a bit higher in the back, though!

Edited by Pliny, 16 April 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Envie]

Pliny, on 16 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Edit: just wanted to add that I LOVE the dresses the prostitutes wear in King's Landing. I need one of those for this summer! I might prefer it cut a bit higher in the back, though!

Dress?! Those sheer things Shae and the other prostitutes wear are little more than a nightgown in my book haha!

I do agree though, the variety of dress styles and costumes are fabulous in the show. They really went all out finding unique styles. I think they wanted to get away from the expectation of a 'crude medieval' style as we're used to from history. Though the world is set in about the same time period and culture, its obviously a fantasy world and so its wonderful they're finding new and different ways to display the styles of hair and dress. I also like the dress of noble men and how much it too varies from region to region. Not just their armor, but their casual everyday and dress wear - particularly the beautiful vests, jackets and doublets of those in King's Landing and the court.

[Iron Captain]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 16 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

is HBO canon? Cuz if it is then was Cersei right about the incest?
And Natalie Dormer is way hot and did a great job as Margaery

I don't think you can technically take the show as cannon, although they receive a lot of input from GRRM.

Either way, despite Margaery's dialogue I didn't take her offering Loras to join them in the bed as meaning they had slept together in the past.  I think she just knew that Renly was gay, and if he needed 'help' from someone he was attracted to she wouldn't mind.

[Morrigan]

Envie, on 16 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Renly never had multiple sex scenes in the book with Loras

Nor did he in the show. He had one, in S1, and there wasn't even any nudity shown. In the last episode, they were kissing, not having sex.

Quote

, never even kissed him or flirted or came close to it - so don't even try to say the book was as obvious as what we're watching (repeatedly) with sex scenes on the series.

Of course they were never shown as being in a relationship explicitly, we never got a POV from these characters and they would obviously keep their relationship private. Duh.

Quote

Show me where in the text of the book this is 'spelled out' and I'll agree with you a little more that readers should realize Renly was gay but not everyone did.

“When the sun has set, no candle can replace it.”
“Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.”

[Crown]

You know, her breasts were wonderful and all. Hope we get see more of them, ehm, Margaery.

Edited by Crown, 16 April 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[BloodOfKingu]

Envie, on 16 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

You're twisting what I said. I never said I didn't realize Renly is gay from the books!  I said it wasn't written explicitly like it is in the show.

that's what i was getting at; i thought it was pretty much spelled out from the beginning that renly was gay, it never even occurred to me anyone would think he wasn't. maybe it's because i have a gay cousin and have spent time in his circle of friends.

there was no twisting intended. it was just a plain statement that i am surprised when people miss this.