75 replies to this topic

[Lady Hodor]

So I'm in the middle of re-reading A Storm of Swords, and have begun to ponder about Craster.
We all know that he marries his daughters and whatnot, and that he "deals with" any sons born.
And of course, it is not-so-subtly hinted that he gives them to the Others, as a sacrfice.

Taking that into consideration, does that mean the Others are able to be negotiated with?
Think about it, Craster is never attacked by the White Walkers, even though he's a prime target.
Maybe they leave him and his women be, because he makes them the offerings of his sons?
Which surely means that the Others have the mental and logical capacity to negotiate.

If that is realized by anyone in Westeros, how much do you think that might effect the threat?

And, as a second point of discussion of the sacrficed sons, look at this extract which takes place after Craster's fall where Gilly and her sisters/mother/whatever plead with Sam to take her with him somewhere safe:

"If you don't take him, they will."
"They?" said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, "They. They. They."
"The boy's brothers" said the old woman on the left. "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

Craster gives his sons away as babies. Now, I'm imagining that there aren't any baby Others strolling around.
Which, presumably, means that Craster's sons must "Grow up" with the White Walkers, if I'm reading this correctly.
So is there some kind of Other Day Care Centre going on? Do they take in humans and train them?

Thoughts?

[Serie]

Ok, I may be totally paranoid when it comes to Craster, but I think he's one of them. You know. The Others....
crackpot it may seem but Old Nan's stories were talking about how the Others would mate wildlings to make Other Babies and there's a point in ACoK where it says:

Quote

Dywen said Craster was a kinslayer, liar, raper, and craven, and hinted that he trafficked with slavers and demons. "And worse," the old forester would add, clacking his wooden teeth. "There's a cold smell to that one, there is."

"he has a smell of cold" is as good as "he is an Other" IMHO

and I don't know about the Day Care Center but I'll tell you this, as an independent, young woman. Men, Others or regular, can take care of babies perfectly fine

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Oh. Huh, I hadn't considered that he was an Other. I think the Others are raising those babies.  To paraphrase Dolorous Ed, there's no meat on a baby.  And I think Craster was the one chose give up his sons.  For the same reason Lions drive off their male young from the pride.  The Others seemed to be content with sheep, when no sons were available.  I think this also means they can be negotiated with.  And I think in the end they'll just be one more faction in Westeros along with R'hollor, the children of the forest, and the various human factions.  After in the end how is Craster any different than Melisandre?

[Lykos]

In the Heresy thread we speculate that Craster has Others´ "blood" / genes.

ETA:  I like the Others´ day care center.  I´m considering to change my name to litttle White Walker.

Edited by Lykos, 16 April 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Serie]

Lykos, on 16 April 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

In the Heresy thread we speculate that Craster has Other´s "blood" / genes.

...and I thought I was going nuts

[BogginsTheDog]

Lady Hodor, on 16 April 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Craster gives his sons away as babies. Now, I'm imagining that there aren't any baby Others strolling around.
Which, presumably, means that Craster's sons must "Grow up" with the White Walkers, if I'm reading this correctly.

I've never understood this logic. The idea of them being "raised" by The Others is, IMO, way off base. They're sacrfices, not recruits, just like how cultures in our world sacrificed animals and humans to gods.

[Richard Rivers]

Serie, on 16 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

"he has a smell of cold" is as good as "he is an Other" IMHO

and I don't know about the Day Care Center but I'll tell you this, as an independent, young woman. Men, Others or regular, can take care of babies perfectly fine

Yeah there has to be more to Craster, as I am assuming the Others could probably just take babies from other wildling village if they really needed them.

[Serie]

Richard Rivers, on 16 April 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yeah there has to be more to Craster, as I am assuming the Others could probably just take babies from other wildling village if they really needed them.

exactly plus it can't be only Craster who was so immoral or wicked cunning to think of sacrificing his sons to the Others in order to save himself.

Edited by Serie, 16 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Lykos]

Serie, on 16 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

...and I thought I was going nuts

Well. most people consider the heretics nuts, your not safe, yet.

[Red Wedding Participant]

I love Craster. He really does kneel to none, unlike the other wildlings. And yes, I am sure that his sons were given to the others. Although in that sense, maybe he kneels to the Others? Well, negotiating isn't the same as kneeling I suppose

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Lady Hodor, on 16 April 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

"If you don't take him, they will."
"They?" said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, "They. They. They."
"The boy's brothers" said the old woman on the left. "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

I think that Craster's sons are the Others. And that the Others "breed" by stealing babies.

[Lykos]

@Humphrey Plantagenet
But why only Craster´s?  (We haven´t heard about any other babies being stolen) And why are the Others comming more frequently now?  Just population growth?

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

The Night's King is supposed to have married an Other...the wiki entry says "Afterwards it was discovered he had been sacrificing to the Others, presumably by giving up children to become White Walkers as Craster was later to do"...the wiki isn't canon of course, but it seems more likely than the Others having living human helpers they've been bringing up as well as the Wights.

Edited by Humphrey Plantagenet, 16 April 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Lykos, on 16 April 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

@Humphrey Plantagenet But why only Craster´s? (We haven´t heard about any other babies being stolen) And why are the Others comming more frequently now? Just population growth?

We don't know its only Craster's. Perhaps he's the only one doing it willingly.

I'd love to know why the Others are on the move now...do they appear with the cold & dark or bring it? Has a new long winter allowed them to rise? Or have they caused it having grown in strength?

[Lykos]

I agree, so are there any ideas about female Others?

ETA:  If you have an open mind and some time, check the heresy threads.

Edited by Lykos, 16 April 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

if they're stealing babies, as well as being provided them, then perhaps they steal girls as well as boys. But the Nights King story is the only one I remember with a female Other. Perhaps they're a male society with a single female leader...like a Queen in an insect colony...and that's why the only mention is when she's married a human King.

[Serie]

Lykos, on 16 April 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I agree, so are there any ideas about female Others?

ETA:  If you have an open mind and some time, check the heresy threads.

IMHO there are no female Others. But I guess that's only me paying too much attention to Old Nan's stories...
Yes, I also remember the story of the Night King's bride. Maybe she was one of the last?

it could be like the LOTR She-Ent...

ETA:

Humphrey Plantagenet, on 16 April 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Perhaps they're a male society with a single female leader...like a Queen in an insect colony...and that's why the only mention is when she's married a human King.

and that's a nice idea also but I believe Craster offering only boys is not coincidental.

Edited by Serie, 16 April 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Serie, on 16 April 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

and that's a nice idea also but I believe Craster offering only boys is not coincidental.

Mel’s always referring to the Lord of Light in male terms. So perhaps the great Other, as well as being his opposite in every other way, is female.

So how about this…A female Great Other as Queen & God of an all male culture. The male Others act as her soldiers and worshippers, and she breeds this army of acolytes by stealing male human babies.

Edited by Humphrey Plantagenet, 16 April 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Was the woman the Night's King married an Other or was she a wight? Big difference.

I hope the Craster thing is explained at some point. I can't tell if the sons "grow up" to become others (which is kind of implied?) or if they're a "sacrifice." But if they're a sacrifice, it still has to be for some purpose. Why does it benefit the Others to kill the boys?

[Serie]

Apple Martini, on 16 April 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Was the woman the Night's King married an Other or was she a wight? Big difference.

I don't think this is stated clearly somewhere. She's described as pale white and skin cold. But I might be forgetting stuff....

ETA: oh, and of course she had the blue eyes too...

Edited by Serie, 16 April 2012 - 05:06 PM.