polishgenius, on 17 April 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:
You thought Katniss was a Mary Sue? I mean, she comes off a bit that way in the first book...
Fair enough, never got past that point.
PaulineMRoss, on 17 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:
Y'all will be pleased to know that this discussion is providing amusement for Australian fantasy author Glenda Larke out there in blogland:
Hmmm...that makes me feel kind of bad for saying all that stuff about Kellhus.
loltergeist, on 17 April 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:
From the small remarks about how fantasy is not written for women, to the suggestion that the only fantasy book women would ever deign to read is twilight, or one of those vampire/werewolf porn books. Honestly? Give me a break. Not only is that completely inaccurate, it’s also pretty insulting.
Look, nobody was talking about you personally. I have 0 female friends, other than from this Board, that read - and I can't think of a better way to put this - the fantasy that I read. I don't know how to describe it, but I don't identify Twilight, Discovery of Witches, Ann Rice, etc. with the kind of fantasy that I currently read. Nor do I identify Terry Goodkind, Salvatore, and all the other authors I don't know because I don't read their stuff that are always overflowing the fantasy shelves in the bookstore with cheap looking paperbacks in never-ending series. This is a personal preference, probably, but I don't like Erickson because it just reminds me of that stuff. I like Lynch, Abercrombie, Martin, Hobb, Kay, etc. The lesser quality stuff appeals to gender stereotypes to sell. So, a lot of 13 year old boys read Salvatore and a lot of 13 year old girls read Twilight.
So, here is where this gets interesting - when Kalbear says that his wife said that there are more women fantasy readers than men, what was being included as fantasy there? Was Ann Rice included in that? It's not like the majority of Bakker readers are women.
I have been operating under the assumption that when a writer sits down to write, they don't intend to alienate HALF OF THE POPULATION, by writing a book that comes with an invisible "you can only read this if you have a penis" warning. Stupid me for thinking that books were written for people, vagina or not.
I really think the OP was just telling you that he wished he could meet more women that were into fantasy, not that you can't like fantasy because you're a woman. There's a difference.
All the talk of women not being able to relate to the characters, therefore, disbanding the whole genre, is such an ignorant comment. Being able to identify to a character isn’t the sole selling point of a novel, in my opinion. And with fantasy expecting the reader to suspend belief, it goes without saying that fully relating to characters is going to be difficult because of the genre, NOT your gender.
Disagree. I'm going to totally nerd out here and say that I love, love, love the Dumai's Wells scene in Lord of Chaos, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like the books more if the women characters were at all relatable. Min has been elevated to cool status just for not sucking.
Maybe if you stopped being so ignorant you would see that a big percentage of women love to read fantasy novels. In fact, I happen to know a lot of female readers who would state that fantasy is their favourite genre. So maybe you just know the wrong types of women, because trust me, female fantasy fans are out there, and by leaving sexist comments for the whole internet to read, you might just be alienating them without realising.
People keep saying this, but where is the data? Finally, I found a study in progress from Princeton (I think I know why this subject makes us all pissy - type in "books women read by genre" into your search engine and you get discussions about chick lit and romance novels). First, as we know, women read more
fiction than men do, making numbers regarding the whole "more women read X than men" thing a little suspect, as we should then be talking about the percentage of female readers that read X vs. the percentage of male readers, or something more like that. 62% of women read fiction, but only 48% of men. Women seriously read twice as many books as men do.
http://www.princeton...06 - Tepper.pdf
NPR says women read more than men in all categories except for history and biography. But, you know, like we said, no kidding since the average woman reads twice as much as the average man. Men only account for 20% of the fiction market.
Data on women reading fantasy is hard to find. Lightspeed Magazine's survey had about a 59/39% male/female. L.E. Modesitt, Jr., says in an interview that men account for slightly more fantasy sales and way more SF sales. He also had this to say:
Women authors can and do portray strong women, and some of them sell very well. Women authors can and do portray strong male characters, and some sell very well. Male authors can and do portray strong male characters, and some of them sell extremely well. Male authors who portray strong female characters usually lose a percentage of their readers.
Okay, an actual survey: http://www.marketing...ion-fans-14476/
Women read more mystery/thriller/crime than men, but only because they read more overall and everyone reads a lot in this genre. Romance is 37% women, 3% men. Science fiction is 32% men, 20% women.
This survey counts Rowling as fantasy. Given that women read twice as many books as men and the Harry Potter series is among the best selling of all time, that probably accounts for that statistic right there.
Anyway, I would like to see data on the percentage of women who read epic fantasy
and the percentage of men who read epic fantasy, as well as the percentage of epic fantasy readers who are female/male.
I have The Name of the Wind to read. Pretty sure my vagina is furious at my reading choice, because fantasy is the chocolate equivalent of a yorkie bar apparently.
Apparently you're not that
big of a fantasy reader - how have you not read that yet??? And I'd love to see if you, as a female, love a particular section of the second book that I literally just paged through
, but no spoilers.