29 replies to this topic

[Ser Murry]

So, I recently fall in love with a Song of Ice and Fire. On a whim, I picked up a Game of Thrones because my brother-in-law (once removed) highly recommended the series. Two days later, I finished it in a haze of joy. It had everything I like in a fantasy novel, and more! The characters were multi-faceted, the storyline was engrossing, the whole world of Westeros was pulling me and I was loving it.
Sure, the death of Neddard, Dany's baby and Drogo were a little harrowing, but all in all, it was great.

My feelings for a Clash of Kings were the same-great story, awesome characters (especially Brienne, who is one of my favorites), but some harrowing major character deaths, including the supposed death of Bran and Rickon. The sacking of Winterfell was trying as well.

And then I started reading a Storm of Swords. I was eating it up, until the Red Wedding. That has to be the most trying chapter in the whole series. Also, the killing of Ygritte was upsetting, as she was a very good character with promise.
My feelings after finishing ASoS are mixed. On the one hand, the story is getting much more interesting and the stakes are getting higher. On the other hand, the sheer amount of character deaths was really depressing. I really liked Robb and Ygritte. It was satisfying to see Lysa and Joffery go, however.

But here is my dilemma: while the first three books have been great, it seems as though the next two books in the series, AFFC and ADWAD, have been badly received by the fans. I have heard that GRRM wastes large amounts of text world building and not advancing the story. I have heard that GRRM does't even include characters like Dany and other key players in ADWD. And most of all, I have heard that he kills off more characters.

I really don't know if I want to continue the series-I have heard little or nothing positive about the rest of the series, and it seems as if we have no idea when the last two books will be out. I really don't want to see any characters I like killed off-my life is depressing enough without that, thank you very much. But at the same time, GRRM is possibly the best fantasy writer, stylistically, that I have ever read.

So, should I spend the time to read the next two books, or is it just not worth it?

~Ser Murry

Edited by Ser Murry, 16 April 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Indigo Blue]

Read them, the people who say AFFC and ADWD are a vocal minority. They are IMO the best books in the series besides SOS.

[Rockroi]

Quote

Read them, the people who say AFFC and ADWD are a vocal minority. They are IMO the best books in the series besides SOS.

This is a statement that has no evidence to back it.

Regardless, you should read the whole series.  AFfC is considered by many to be the weakest book in the series, and yet many people still think its a good book.  The story continues to grow and impress; the writing is impeccable; the characters second-to-none.  As time goes on you are still peeking under every rock looking for answers and trying to avoid traps.

Read them all.  Then decide.

[Ser Malthred Stark]

You made it this far, might as well make it to the end!

[Magdelaine Snow]

I completely understand your impression, it was mine as well. I basically gave up after AFFC and haven't bothered with ADWD. However, now just past the Red Wedding on a re-read, the story is not quite as shocking and much more enjoyable. I'm now looking forward to reading AFFC again and finally ADWD. GRR Martin is not as careful with his heros as most writers; in fact he enjoys making the anti-hero the hero and vice versa. Once you get acclimated to this, however, there is much to enjoy. I believe he will manage to either wrap it satisfactorily or at least leave a decent enough plotline so that if he doesn't manage to live to see it finished someone else can do the honors. I'm hopeful, anyway.

[FacelessDude]

Why let critics or other opinions about the next two books sway your thoughts about them? The power of suggestion... Can be pretty powerful. Some people who have read Game of Thrones said they thought it was horrible. I've also heard people say they disliked aSoS and liked aFfC and blah blah.

Some readers start to hate on these books because their favorite characters die, it's understandable to an extent because this almost never happens in most fantasy novels. I would understand if aFfC and aDwD got 1/5 stars, but the lowest I've seen the two rated on amazon, etc is 3/5.

Just read the books, and make your own opinion of them.

Jeez man, your asking others if you should read the continuation of a series by an author you just said was one of the best fantasy writers out there. If you can't deal with not knowing when the last 2 books of the series will be released then wait 5 years and then finish the series. Or just give up on the series.

Edited by FacelessDude, 23 April 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[Drowsey Dragon]

Yes read on! I was also very depressed after the RW, but this series is way to good to walk away from.

I enjoyed Feast, and Dance is really good. I am half way through it. Don't listen to others and decide for yourself.

[Lord Barristan]

I was very shocked by the Red Wedding, but Robb isn't a POV character and his story was a typical fantasy story- revenging his parents' death. GRRM wasn't trying to write that type of story. From the beginning it was clear Robb wasn't that important. He got built up off screen and he does play a role of course, but from the beginning his bastard brother Jon Snow was always more important.

The 3 characters with most POVs in the books are Jon, Tyrion, and Arya. Tyrion and Arya both have very high opinions of Jon, and Bran also thinks of him a lot and saves his life through Summer and communicates with him through the Weirwoods in a Clash of Kings.

So you may say that you like Robb more than these characters, but then i wonder why you liked the series at all because Robb barely features and Tyrion, Jon, and Arya have the most chapters.

Then you also have Bran and Sansa who have very good arcs, and Bran's in ADWD is just awesome.

My other favorite POV characters are Jaime and Davos.

Honestly, I was more upset about Catelyn than Robb after the Red Wedding. I never liked Cat, but the way she went down thinking all her kids were dead was tragic.

I would say I was much more upset by the Old Bear and Oberyn and even Tywin dying than Robb.

Its all personal preference, but you need to have faith in the author. Some storylines in Feast and Dance are very slow, but the war of five kings is all but ended. Only Stannis still lives.

And I mean, Storm of Swords is so action packed. How many battles are there? At least three different battles at the wall. The Red Wedding.

Plenty of duals... The Hound vs. Lord Beric, Jaime vs. Brienne, The Bear at Harrenhal, Oberyn vs. The Mountain, Arya and the Hound vs Polliver and the Tickler, it would be unrealistic to think a book could continue at the pace of STORM

Edited by Lord Barristan, 23 April 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[Gorgamash]

Ser Murry, on 16 April 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

But here is my dilemma: while the first three books have been great, it seems as though the next two books in the series, AFFC and ADWAD, have been badly received by the fans. I have heard that GRRM wastes large amounts of text world building and not advancing the story. I have heard that GRRM does't even include characters like Dany and other key players in ADWD. And most of all, I have heard that he kills off more characters.

Actually it is the other way around; Dany doesn't appear in A Feast for Crows. Basically Feast and Dance is one book up to a point. But Feast focus on the characters in the South; well A Dance focuses on the characters in the North and the Free Cities. But I wouldn't let the reviews sway you. If you like the series you will like Book 4 and Book 5. Most of the people who crap on Book 4 & 5 are manly the ones that had to wait 5 years to continue the story. If you had the luxury to read all five books back to back 4 and 5 are not as bad as the reviews make them out to be, there actually really good, just the first three were better.

[Francisco R. Fonseca]

While I never considered not continuing w/the series I am glad this question was asked so some of the next 2 books could be explained. I agree, I've heard bad things and was wary too, but am pushing forward. The characters are too compelling to drop at this point. I do agree to a point though, while Robb is a Stark he isn't a big character meaning POV, Catelyn's death was more of a shock and tragedy than his though IMO.

[KhaleesiDany]

Lord Barristan, on 23 April 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

And I mean, Storm of Swords is so action packed. How many battles are there? At least three different battles at the wall. The Red Wedding.

Plenty of duals... The Hound vs. Lord Beric, Jaime vs. Brienne, The Bear at Harrenhal, Oberyn vs. The Mountain, Arya and the Hound vs Polliver and the Tickler, it would be unrealistic to think a book could continue at the pace of STORM

I disagree with this. Why is it unrealistic for the books to continue at this pace? I agree that Storm was the most action packed, but Clash had plenty of action too. The battle at the end blew me away. I don't see why the next books can't have as much action as this one did. (Okay, maybe a little less intense!)

[Francisco R. Fonseca]

That's a good point. The Battle of the Blackwater was really intense and ended up having a life-changing impact for Tyrion, among other events that continue to have effects in Westeros. I have no reason to believe we won't see as much action in the next books.

[ckal]

Lord Barristan, on 23 April 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

And I mean, Storm of Swords is so action packed. How many battles are there? At least three different battles at the wall. The Red Wedding.

Plenty of duals... The Hound vs. Lord Beric, Jaime vs. Brienne, The Bear at Harrenhal, Oberyn vs. The Mountain, Arya and the Hound vs Polliver and the Tickler, it would be unrealistic to think a book could continue at the pace of STORM

Don't forget the battle and sequence at the fist of the first men and all of Dany's battles. I'm sure there's something else we are forgetting too.

Francisco R. Fonseca, on 30 April 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

That's a good point. The Battle of the Blackwater was really intense and ended up having a life-changing impact for Tyrion, among other events that continue to have effects in Westeros. I have no reason to believe we won't see as much action in the next books.

As far as i remember, I thought ACOK was pretty slow until halfway through. Aside from Battle of the Blackwater, what other fighting was there? Robb and edmure's battles were off page. There was jaqen and some action at harrenhall I recall.

[Rhaegar's Harp]

(woo-hoo, first post!)

I actually just finished a Storm of Swords and am 100 pages in to A Feast for Crows.

It is not nearly as boring or tedious as I was expecting, based on the reviews (so far).  I also find the new characters and their storylines pretty interesting.

[ckal]

Rhaegar's Harp-

Welcome! I just skimmed through the first 100 pages or so of AFFC, and I was really taken aback by the POV's! The names were not what I was expecting.

[Rhaegar's Harp]

Thanks ckai!

Yeah I was pretty surprised with the POVs as well. I can't sleep (2:15am here) so I just keep reading.

I'm definitely guilty of looking ahead at POVs and chapters too!

Edited by Rhaegar's Harp, 16 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[baksh]

Okay, first of all, when I found this series, I raced through(in reading of course) AGoT, ACoK and was halfway or so through ASoS when I came to know that GRRM took so long in writing AFfC and ADwD and I thought that he might take as long for the next book as well, and I decided to slow down considerably. While at the same time I got busy with my examinations. Yet, I could not help but resume the series at that same speed as before and before I knew it, I was finishing ASoS and now I am about halfway through AFfC. I was also a bit wary of getting into AFfC but not for the same reasons as you. I had only heard good things about it. That was not the point. The point was that the North had always had more fascination for me than south. That is perhaps because I always liked old things, history, castles, etc. and the North seems to have all that with the old traditions, the old gods, the old ways, blood of the first men, and the varied mysteries and objects, etc that I was drawn to. If we compare that with the South, we have so many cities, people, new gods and that is all man made. Nothing seems to be reminiscent of the old history(even though fictional). That is why i was wary, not to mention the fact that all my favourite characters were in the North, save perhaps for Arya(whose POV sometimes did get on my nerves, I agree, but still felt very promising) and the Imp(whom I liked only for his wits the most) and had all the characters that I kind of disliked(Sansa, Cersei, Joffrey who thankfully is no more, Stannis, Melisandre, etc).

But what I read on this site did give me some hope. They said that Sansa's character improves a lot, and I am starting to see the improvement. They also  said that some new story lines are starting which are good, and I must say they have been very intriguing till now and have a lot of promise. Arya is not disappointing at all. The only thing that was being complained of was Brienne, and I must say GRRM is finding a lot to write about something that I would have thought would be difficult to find enough to write about. Anyways, it's not bad enough as some of the others that were there in the first three books.

Plus, many said that they did not like Bran in the first three books, which I must say is surprising for me because his were the best IMHO. And now the same people say that his chapters are fantastic as Lord Barristan(who I must say is very comically and ironically a squire here on the site, though I hope and my best wishes with you that you rise much further ahead) is testifying. And that is what has kept me going in a major way because as I loved Bran's chapters, I can not wait to get onto ADwD. Also I am loving Jon's chapters and beyond the Wall was so great!! And now he is the Lord Commander!! Wow, I want to see how he does as one.

In the end all I want so say is that I know that AFfC, and I think ADwD, are not as action packed as the first three(especially ACoK and ASoS) but I would like to compare the series with a hurricane. As you all must know, they first hit fiercely, and then the eye of the storm goes over which for some time creates a lull, a peace of sorts, and then finally the storm hits again, and sometimes more fiercely and definitely finally. So I am having a feeling that this is just the calm before the storm. A time for everyone to gather what little they have and brace for the storm, which gives GRRM some space for more story build-up. So yes, I would definitely recommend you to read on because if the little story build-up in AGoT and to some extent in ACoK(comparitively to AFfC and ADwD) brought about such a great action packed third novel, I can't wait for the final two books to be out, which are I assume A Winds of Winter and A dream of Springs which as the titles suggest are signs of a sort of a comeback for the Starks, because Winter is their time and the working title for the last book was A Time for Wolves, and we all know who the wolves are.

I just can not wait to get through to the final book, so much so that I am surprised you have been thinking of quitting the series after ASoS. Well, that's all personal I think, so I would leave it all upto you ofcourse, but I hope to have made you think atleast and be of even a little help.

Cheers.

[Dracarya]

I preferred AFFC to ADWD, though there were elements of ADWD that I loved too. I read through them all at a ridiculously fast pace and loved every second, but now I'm stuck on a reread of ADWD. It can seem quite boring and drawn-out, but, like others have said, I recommend reading them all and making your own mind up. I have much higher hopes for the next book(s), and if you don't read these, you'll be missing out on a lot of key information.

[FacelessDude]

I thought aFfC was going to be very boring, it is not, IMO. It is more drawn out and slower paced, but I like the world building. I'm not that interested in the Dorne chapters, but it's all in the book, and obviously important. My favorite chapters are the Iron Island chapters, Sam's chapters and Arya's. This is a good book, but it does focus on more political aspects and it informs the reader of the world, world building and setting up the story for something big.

But I still have aDwD to read. Looking forward to it.

[Night Gathers]

I read the books and loved them. I heard people saying the last two weren't as good as the previous ones, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth reading. It wasn't like going from ASOS to AFFC and you noticed a change in the value or level of the book, it's just that the story is more build-up for the later books. I wouldn't be surprised if the books after ADWD are the best in the series. GRRM has had plenty of build-up by then and I can only imagine him peaking with those books!

By all means, keep reading.