416 replies to this topic

[Raidne]

Can being Bad Company's dummer's daughter really be that much of an advantage when they didn't even list his name?

Leviathan I, on 18 April 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

But seriously can't you see how your position could have been misconstrued?

No. No I do not. I don't live in some reactionary backwater where a reference to a liberal media outlet automatically means (1) liberal is bad, (2) liberal media outlets are really bad, and (3) all media outlets are liberal.

Only liberal media sources were covering this show before it aired. How would I unambiguously phrase information without writing some kind of disclaimer for dipshits?

If you thought it was ambiguous, ask. And thank for the apology for insulting me and calling me a bigot (and a southerner! the horrors!), asshole.

[Raidne]

Arbur Goldarelli, on 18 April 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I did not like all the bathroom-sharing stuff.  Do people actually do this?  Eat a cupcake in the bathtub while someone else shaves her legs?  Or walk in to the bathroom to have a conversation with someone who is on the toilet?  Who does this??  Boundaries, ladies.  Come on.

Yeah, not me either.

[Mr. E]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Only liberal media sources were covering this show before it aired. How would I unambiguously phrase information without writing some kind of disclaimer for dipshits?

If you thought it was ambiguous, ask. And thank for the apology for insulting me and calling me a bigot (and a southerner! the horrors!), asshole.

To defend the good name of Southerners everywhere, I must assert the "rednecks" are not just a southern phenomenon.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP DAVID MAMET'S DAUGHTER'S IN THIS?!?!?!?

Mind=Blown.

Edited by Mr. E, 18 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Leviathan I]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Can being Bad Company's dummer's daughter really be that much of an advantage when they didn't even list his name?



No. No I do not. I don't live in some reactionary backwater where a reference to a liberal media outlet automatically means (1) liberal is bad, (2) liberal media outlets are really bad, and (3) all media outlets are liberal.

Only liberal media sources were covering this show before it aired. How would I unambiguously phrase information without writing some kind of disclaimer for dipshits?

If you thought it was ambiguous, ask. And thank for the apology for insulting me and calling me a bigot (and a southerner! the horrors!), asshole.

First of all: I'm not a dipshit. I maybe slightly ignorant as I am an Australian 15 year old. So obviously I might be unaware of things like "Only liberal media sources were covering this show before it aired."

Forgive for my naivety but when someone says "fucking liberal media outlets" I assume that the person is criticising said liberal media outlets. Just like if I said "fucking right wing media outlets keep talking about ____" you would probably assume that I'm opposed to right wing media. Obviously -as you have eloquently demonstrated- this may not always be the case but I think it's a little disingenuous of you to immediately pounce on me like a fucking feminist laying a trap. "Oh you see! You're stereotyping what I said therefore you must be completely ignorant and stupid and I must be the fucking progressive saint for not conforming that stereotypical idea!"

[RedEyedGhost]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Only liberal media sources were covering this show before it aired.

Grantland and Hitflix are liberal media sources?  

[Ser Greguh]

Well, the vast majority of pre-air enthusiasm for the show - outside of HBO itself - seemed to come from consciously-hip liberal media sources.  That's not surprising, given the show's overall pitch, the question becomes, how well will it hold to audiences (like me) that tend to snigger at that sort of self-absorption and develop something that nay resemble that on a superficial level but create something that can also hold a mirror up to itself.  If it can, I think at first glance (in my most wildly optimistic predictions) that this has the capacity to become a sort of Daria for grown-ups, which is something I would love immensely.

Leviathan, chill.  Raidne's almost never malicious and she doesn't have to lay traps.  Her sometimes-vigorous defense of her position is often a reflection of the thought she puts into them in the first place.

[Francis Buck]

Well, I was entertained by it. The writing was decent, it was moderately funny, and I liked the lead (Lena Dunham, was it?). It was enjoyable. But it's hardly the kind of show I'd devote much thought towards beyond a few minutes after watching it. And aside from being a 22 year old writer that's semi-dependent on his parents (except that I actually work and pay my bills and take care of my sixty-two year old mom who just had serious spinal surgery and won't be able to walk properly for six months), I really can't say that I relate to any of the characters.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

I didn't intend to watch it, but there it was sandwiched in between the series finale of East Bound & Down and the encore of GoT, so I ended up watching it anyway (I c wut u did thar, HBO).  It wasn't bad.  Not uproariously funny but given the tone of the humor I don't think it intends to be.  The show seems to be more a statement about the modern post-teenage chronic underachiever lifestyle than a true comedy in the tradtional sense.  While many of us can't relate to or agree with the protagonist's life at age 24, there certainly are a decent number of young adults living that life today, only their parents often continue to support them.  Her friends were essentially a cross section of stereotypes but they felt true to life.  Pretty sure I used to date the girl who compared herself to every character on Sex and the City.

[Mandy]

I watched this last night because I saw Raidne write a thread about it.  Thanks a LOT Raidne.

I was incredibly annoyed with the main character.  She reminds me of my ex-boyfriend.  In order to get a job, you have to apply to more than one place, dummy.  Get off your butt and DO something already.  In 4 years you'll be 30 and you won't be ABLE to talk about how you're just not READY for all these "grown up" things.

Ok, maybe my personal experiences have made me a little biased.

I dunno, I guess it was ok.  What exactly is it trying to prove?  Tell us?  Show us?

But it really wasn't very funny, sorry.

[Raidne]

Mr. E, on 18 April 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

To defend the good name of Southerners everywhere, I must assert the "rednecks" are not just a southern phenomenon.

Untrue. Us Yankees call them white trash.

Leviathan I, on 18 April 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Forgive for my naivety but when someone says "fucking liberal media outlets" I assume that the person is criticising said liberal media outlets.

If I said "every fucking shoe at the half-off Jimmy Choo sale was gone by the time I got there" would you assume I hated shoes? You're the one who insulted me. You were wrong and I told you so. Man up already.

RedEyedGhost, on 18 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Grantland and Hitflix are liberal media sources?  

I have never heard of these. I did a search for Fox News Girls HBO before I wrote that and the only thing that came up was something criticizing the show after it aired. I'm guessing these are on par with Slate or the New Yorker?

Francis Buck, on 18 April 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

And aside from being a 22 year old writer that's semi-dependent on his parents (except that I actually work and pay my bills and take care of my sixty-two year old mom who just had serious spinal surgery and won't be able to walk properly for six months), I really can't say that I relate to any of the characters.

I wonder if this'll change as it goes on? Slate has a "Guys on Girls" review and they seemed to like the one guy who make the opium tea?

Ser Greguh, on 18 April 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

...audiences (like me) that tend to snigger at that sort of self-absorption...

Do you like Wes Anderson movies? Did you think the show was like Juno or will get like Juno? Some reviewers thought the SmartWater Vitamin Water references and discussion on texting/FB/gchat, etc. were a little self-consciously "in the moment" like that.

ETA: And sorry Mandy! I think the show has it right - it's A voice of A generation.

Edited by Raidne, 18 April 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Ser Greguh]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Do you like Wes Anderson movies? Did you think the show was like Juno or will get like Juno? Some reviewers thought the SmartWater Vitamin Water references and discussion on texting/FB/gchat, etc. were a little self-consciously "in the moment" like that.

I do like Wes Anderson; I thought Rushmore was fantastic and The Royal Tenenbaums was even better, I'm on the fence on The Life Aquatic and haven't seen his other movies.

I don't know what you mean by "like Juno" - I loved Juno, and I think people who criticize it (or, for that matter, praise it) specifically for its use of its own vernacular, pop-culture references, "too-clever-isms" are catastrophically and tragically missing the central point of the movie, which was Juno's vulnerability, and the way in which her eccentricity evolved as a means to mask it (one will notice that she uses less and less of it as the movie goes on and she grows up).  Good movies / shows, like Daria, Ghost World, Juno, Easy A, present that sort of behavior for a purpose.  Unfortunately they tend to spawn lesser imitators who copy some of the chords but don't understand the music and treat it like a gimmick, which in turn tends to cause some people to think that the only reason to present that sort of thing is as that sort of gimmick, which often leads to backlash against the original material.

Cliffs: I don't give the hair on a rat's left ass cheek what slang a show uses, whether it talks about facebook, or if it mentions a specific brand of vitamin water.  As Ebert is fond of saying, a movie isn't about what it's about, it's about how it is about what it's about.  If it's using that sort of stuff as a gimmick, I trust I will be able to identify it as such in time, as I've been around the block a few times when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Something similar happened when Pulp Fiction came out suddenly every movie that came out was fucking around with its chronology, but was generally doing so without any reason more eloquent than "Pulp Fiction did it and people seemed to like it, and stuff."

It's too early to judge what Girls is going to wind up to be, but I have faith that it's an auteur piece and not a churned-out product from the Hollywood Copycat machine which at least piques my interest.  I tend to reserve full judgment on a show until after it has produced what I deem to be a full dramatic unit, which in the case of Girls will probably be a season (unless it's horrible, in which case I will bail).

[Francis Buck]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I wonder if this'll change as it goes on? Slate has a "Guys on Girls" review and they seemed to like the one guy who make the opium tea?

Honestly if the show's well-made and entertaining, then I'll watch it. It's actually kind of fun seeing what "girls do when guys aren't around" (even if it is fictional), and since this actually is written and directed by a seemingly intelligent twenty-something girl, I'm assuming it's at least partially accurate. I mean, the stuff I've seen from the pilot and in trailers definitely reminds of some girls I know (although slightly more "cartoonish", for lack of a better word, but that's expected).

I mean shit, I can't relate to a single person on The Wire, but it's still in my top three favorite shows of all time.

[Raidne]

Ser Greguh, on 18 April 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

I don't know what you mean by "like Juno" - I loved Juno, and I think people who criticize it (or, for that matter, praise it) specifically for its use of its own vernacular, pop-culture references, "too-clever-isms" are catastrophically and tragically missing the central point of the movie, which was Juno's vulnerability, and the way in which her eccentricity evolved as a means to mask it (one will notice that she uses less and less of it as the movie goes on and she grows up).  Good movies / shows, like Daria, Ghost World, Juno, Easy A, present that sort of behavior for a purpose.  Unfortunately they tend to spawn lesser imitators who copy some of the chords but don't understand the music and treat it like a gimmick, which in turn tends to cause some people to think that the only reason to present that sort of thing is as that sort of gimmick, which often leads to backlash against the original material.

I don't know, I think some people think Wes Anderson's movies and Juno were a little too self-consciously "hip" or something, but one thing that got to me about Juno is that the title character was just a little too clever all the time to really be real, to some extent. I don't see that being a problem here - Hannah is definitely flawed and completely believable, IMO.

One thing I like about the show A LOT is that it is "Girls" not "Girls Trying to Be Attractive" which is what so, so many shows about women, including, of course, Sex and the City are overly about. It's not whitewashing the female experience for the stomachs of a male audience, and I'm sure we all know what scene I'm thinking of when I say that.

[Ser Greguh]

Raidne, on 18 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

I don't know, I think some people think Wes Anderson's movies and Juno were a little too self-consciously "hip" or something, but one thing that got to me about Juno is that the title character was just a little too clever all the time to really be real, to some extent. I don't see that being a problem here - Hannah is definitely flawed and completely believable, IMO.

Yeah, my POV is that I generally enjoy it when a movie has the too-clever-by-half problem, since that's a welcome distraction from the 90%+ of movies that have the opposite problem of being not clever enough by three-quarters.  I've also always seen movie dialogue as analogous to movie action; it's generally preferable to sacrifice "what's realistic" for "what's cool."  If people don't have a problem with Jason Bourne's improbable martial feats, I don't see why they should have a problem with Juno's quips - particularly when the movie gave ample justification for why she was the way she was, from her parents, to her able sparring partner in Leah.  I thought it was a telling quote when Juno told Leah she was pregnant, Leah snarked it off, Juno repeated it and Leah gave the more normal "holy shit" reaction; Juno's line was "Yeah, that was kind of the emotion I was searching for on the first take."  It's the sort of thing that seems like a throwaway snark but also cements that the two girls see themselves as actors, as performers, as people who have built up their schtick over the years and deploy it against the world as a means of self-defense, which in Juno's case masked her total vulnerability.  That's to me the sort of detail that prevents it specifically from falling into the "clever for the sake of clever" trap.

Anyway, minor point.

Quote

One thing I like about the show A LOT is that it is "Girls" not "Girls Trying to Be Attractive" which is what so, so many shows about women, including, of course, Sex and the City are overly about. It's not whitewashing the female experience for the stomachs of a male audience, and I'm sure we all know what scene I'm thinking of when I say that.

This I definitely agree with, it's refreshing to see women who appear to be judging themselves on a scale that is not entirely (if at all) reliant on their acceptance by a man, which was always one of the most annoying aspects of SatC, despite being, I would argue, a very feminist show on balance.  I can't speak as to the verisimilitude of its "female experience", but it plays as human experience nicely enough.

[Triskele]

I'm going to keep watching.  I have to admit that crazy Mamet's daughter made me laugh when she delivered "but sometimes Samantha comes out" or however she put it.  That was a line that could have been garbage, but it was delivered so well.

Yes, there's a fuckton of nepotism.  I don't really care about that.  It's not necessarily good or bad.  Brian Williams has a hot daughter.

I agree with AG that the cutting off of the money scene was a little unrealistic.  I think that kind of talk tends to happen with a warning, and in this episode it was portrayed more as a bombshell.  

By the way, this episode seemed to reinforce the notion that you "girls" won't like us guys if we're too nice / sweet to you.  You actually prefer us to be all kinds of things...mean, mysterious, neurotic, needy, dismissive, etc...but the one thing we dare not be towards you is nice.

[Leviathan I]

@Raidne
Yeah that's a completely logical analogy because shoes are such a polarizing topic, it seems like everyone either hates them or loves them. No! No-one fucking hates shoes. Biased media on the other hand does actually illicit a passionate response from pretty much everyone. And as I've stated already I'm not going to apologise because I feel that you're being disingenuous. I'm sorry you get so butt-hurt after being falsely labelled a redneck but I've actually never heard anyone but a redneck say "fucking liberal media". A reasonable person would have realised that and stopped bitching about it.

[Brady]

Mamet's daughter has been on Mad Men too, Peggy's lesbian friend.

Triskele, on 18 April 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, this episode seemed to reinforce the notion that you "girls" won't like us guys if we're too nice / sweet to you.  You actually prefer us to be all kinds of things...mean, mysterious, neurotic, needy, dismissive, etc...but the one thing we dare not be towards you is nice.

I don't think that's it, Trisk. Being nice is fine, as long as you bring something else to the table. What else does Charlie bring to the table, though? I got a decent read on most of the other characters, but him? He's just .... nice. His personality, in this episode, is defined by the fact that he's a nice boyfriend. And that, to me at least, comes across as pretty fake. Like when  she asked him what would turn him on and his reply was "To turn you on." Instead of actually venturing an opinion, he just says what he thinks she'll want to hear. C'mon dude. If you want to have hot sex up against the refridgerator, say you want to have hot sex up against the refridgerator. He's clearly not entirely happy with the way the relationship is going, given that he must have complained to his friend about the lack of sex, but he doesn't let that show at all. He doesn't want to piss his girlfriend off, even when he was a valid complaint.

Edited by Brady, 19 April 2012 - 12:37 AM.

[Sci-2]

Quote

If you want to have hot sex up against the refridgerator, say you want to have hot sex up against the refridgerator.

This would be very convenient, given my love of cold cuts.

eta: Fucking liberal media. ;-)

Edited by sciborg2, 19 April 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[Mandy]

Triskele, on 18 April 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, this episode seemed to reinforce the notion that you "girls" won't like us guys if we're too nice / sweet to you.  You actually prefer us to be all kinds of things...mean, mysterious, neurotic, needy, dismissive, etc...but the one thing we dare not be towards you is nice.

That's funny, cuz I'm pretty sure men don't like the nice girls.  I can always tell that one mean, mysterious, neurotic, needy, dismissive bi*** on the bachelor that the guy is intrigued by and refuses to kick off.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Ser Greguh, on 18 April 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Yeah, my POV is that I generally enjoy it when a movie has the too-clever-by-half problem, since that's a welcome distraction from the 90%+ of movies that have the opposite problem of being not clever enough by three-quarters.

I have not (yet) seen Girls, although after reading this thread I intend to watch the first ep over the weekend on HBO GO. But I wanted to let you know that I liked your post exclusively for this sentence, which is funny and true (not that the rest of your post wasn't good). I'll take a movie that's too smart for its own good over one that's not even bothering to try any day of the week, and I'll be glad for it.