145 replies to this topic

[Jeck]

Exitao, on 18 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Tyrion is a chimera. Jaime and Cersei were twins and Tyrion has two different coloured eyes. This usually happens when one twin absorbes another in the womb.

I only realised this on my second read through.

You just blew my mind with this. I haven't seen this idea before; am I just out of the loop? Being a chimera goes a long way towards explaining his deformities and his mother's death during childbirth.

Edited by Jeck, 18 April 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[salt]

u guyz i think renly n lores might be gays

[Jeck]

I also missed the hints that Aegon is Illyrio's son and possibly a Blackfyre to boot.

Edited by Jeck, 18 April 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[Eyron I]

Exitao, on 18 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Tyrion is a chimera. Jaime and Cersei were twins and Tyrion has two different coloured eyes. This usually happens when one twin absorbes another in the womb.

I only realised this on my second read through.

Uh oh, I totally missed this Possible I guess, but does it bring anything to the story? Are there any common psychological effects that could be relevant from this condition?
I thought it only was a hint to Shiera Seastar in some obscure way, she also had eyes of two different colours, but hers were blue and green.

Harle The Handsome, on 18 April 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

After Bran ate the Weirwood paste, he began to have a vision from the weirwood tree in Winterfell.  He saw two children who he thought was himself and Arya, but never personally remembered Arya beating him with play swords.  After the boy gets hurt the girls says "Quiet or Old Nan will hear you."  It is believed that the two children were Eddard and Lyanna.  If Nana was already old when Ned was a child, she has lived an impossibly long life.  Combine this with her very short stature and many believe that Old Nan is actually one of the children of the forest.

As KCenturion said, it is believed that it is Lyanna and Benjen that are playing.

Old Nan has not lived impossibly long, she is probably about 100 years old, so she was about 75 when Eddard were around the age of 10. That is still very old in the view of children. I have not heard a theory that she is a Child of the Forest yet, and if anyone suggested that I would say that it's not suggested in the text at all.
Old people often grow much shorter than they were, and her lack of talons, dappled dark brown skin and yellow big eyes is kind of a tell that she is human.

[salt]

Old Nan is clearly a Child of the Forest who molested Aeron Greyjoy.


There are plenty of threads for crackpot theories.   it seems like the purpose of this thread is for things that, while obscure, actually have enough evidence in the text alone to widely be considered true (e.g., Euron hired a faceless man to kill Balon).

[Exitao]

Being a chimera would make Tyrion a kin-slayer from (pre)foetus stage in the womb, accursed even before he killed his mother. 
Also, Jaime and Cerseiboth feel that each is their other half, whereas our little monster would be a whole, at least inside. 
Other aspects of chimera are only medical/genetic and would bs observable by maester science. 


As for Nan... It's possible she's part Child. I think all the Green Seers must be. 

Also, Barriston tells Dany that someone matching the description of the Lady of the Leaves had prophesied something about the Prince Who Would Come, which determined her parents' marriage, IIRC.  

[Greenseer Stark]

DaveSumm, on 18 April 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

But it was never implied that all three deaths would be shadow-esque magic, all clearly attributed to her. I assumed at the time, as I believe Stannis did, that if these deaths happened they would all have other explanations. You could just as easily say that her assertion that the loss of the Blackwater battle was due to her absence is false: it probably is, but there's no evidence either way.

My point is that someone who has finished their fiftieth re-read has as much reason to be sceptical of the leeches as someone who just read the chapter in question: there is nothing that anyone has 'missed'. For what it's worth, I agree. Pretending to have more power than she does to win Stannis's favour sounds like typical Mel behaviour. But I just don't count it as something that could be 'missed'.

One of the reason's that I think the leeches have some significance is the fact that she used Edric Storm's blood to fill them.  Since she needed King's blood, which Edric would have from Robert, for the magic to work, I'm led to believe that the leeches are more than Mel simply pretending to Stannis to have more power in this instance.

Or maybe the fact that Edric Storm's blood is used is redundant, as you quite rightly say that fits the typical behaviour of Melisandre.

[Harle The Handsome]

Eaeron I, on 18 April 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Old Nan has not lived impossibly long, she is probably about 100 years old, so she was about 75 when Eddard were around the age of 10. That is still very old in the view of children. I have not heard a theory that she is a Child of the Forest yet, and if anyone suggested that I would say that it's not suggested in the text at all.
Old people often grow much shorter than they were, and her lack of talons, dappled dark brown skin and yellow big eyes is kind of a tell that she is human.

Dappled skin of the CotF could simply look like age spots if all you are expecting is an old woman.  There was also a CotF in Arya's PoV who came to hear Tom O'Seven sing a song.  IIRC it was about "her Jeyne" which was from about 100 years ago in Westeros history.  There is just as much foreshadowing about CotF walking among men as there was about Frey pies, yet everyone believes in Frey pies.

[Eyron I]

Harle The Handsome, on 18 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Dappled skin of the CotF could simply look like age spots if all you are expecting is an old woman.  There was also a CotF in Arya's PoV who came to hear Tom O'Seven sing a song.  IIRC it was about "her Jeyne" which was from about 100 years ago in Westeros history.  There is just as much foreshadowing about CotF walking among men as there was about Frey pies, yet everyone believes in Frey pies.

The Wood's Witch is not decidedly a Child of the Forest, she is an albino though, and very small.

"Her Jenny" was the wife of Duncan the Small, Egg's son, so the Wood's Witch (or the Ghost of High Heart as she is called in Arya's POV) could be the same age as Nan and Maester Aemon (Egg's older brother). That would put her a generation before her Jenny, and she would be about 100 years old. She could be a CotF, maybe in disguise via glamor, or a half-CotF/half-human or some such, but she still does not look like a CotF entirely. And it doesn't make Old Nan look more like one either.
Bran says the CotF look like human children from a distance, and nothing like up close.

My personal theory is that there were intermingling between men and CotF, a long time ago, and that is why there are humans with skinchanging abilities, such as the wargs and the greenseers. The Starks, the Reeds and the Blackwoods are probably descendants of both lines, but that is just my theory. The traits are not really visible anymore, but some traits remain in them and the Reeds that have been isolated for a long time still resemble the CotF a little bit more than the other families.

[SerBronn]

Ser Miguel, on 17 April 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

Alleras from the Citadel might actually be Sarella Sand!!! I read it last nihgt on the wiki and it totally makes sense.
Theon might have been castrated by Ramsay

Yeah I think thats why he was afraid of being naked in front of people. Because he is "less than a man"

[caffeinated]

Eaeron I, on 18 April 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Uh oh, I totally missed this Possible I guess, but does it bring anything to the story? Are there any common psychological effects that could be relevant from this condition?
I thought it only was a hint to Shiera Seastar in some obscure way, she also had eyes of two different colours, but hers were blue and green.


As KCenturion said, it is believed that it is Lyanna and Benjen that are playing.

Old Nan has not lived impossibly long, she is probably about 100 years old, so she was about 75 when Eddard were around the age of 10. That is still very old in the view of children. I have not heard a theory that she is a Child of the Forest yet, and if anyone suggested that I would say that it's not suggested in the text at all.
Old people often grow much shorter than they were, and her lack of talons, dappled dark brown skin and yellow big eyes is kind of a tell that she is human.

She could have been 50 and looked really old, in medieval times, right?

SerBronn, on 18 April 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Yeah I think thats why he was afraid of being naked in front of people. Because he is "less than a man"

I recall he also thought something to himself about "What could he do with her anyway" during one of the wildling girls attempts to seduce him at Winterfell.

[tryagainlater]

Exitao, on 18 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Tyrion is a chimera. Jaime and Cersei were twins and Tyrion has two different coloured eyes. This usually happens when one twin absorbes another in the womb.

I only realised this on my second read through.

Wow, good catch. It's interesting that in Greek mythology, the father of the beast Chimera was Typhon. Could the ty be a coincidence?

[Apple Martini]

Exitao, on 18 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Tyrion is a chimera. Jaime and Cersei were twins and Tyrion has two different coloured eyes. This usually happens when one twin absorbes another in the womb.

I don't say this often on here because it's almost never true, but ... my mind, it is blown.

Edited by Apple Martini, 18 April 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[DaveSumm]

...and there's precedent in Westeros of the phenomena with Maelys Blackfyre. Trying to find some clever parallel between the two but I can't spot one.

[ARYa_Nym]

Eaeron I, on 18 April 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

The Wood's Witch is not decidedly a Child of the Forest, she is an albino though, and very small.

"Her Jenny" was the wife of Duncan the Small, Egg's son, so the Wood's Witch (or the Ghost of High Heart as she is called in Arya's POV) could be the same age as Nan and Maester Aemon (Egg's older brother). That would put her a generation before her Jenny, and she would be about 100 years old. She could be a CotF, maybe in disguise via glamor, or a half-CotF/half-human or some such, but she still does not look like a CotF entirely. And it doesn't make Old Nan look more like one either.
Bran says the CotF look like human children from a distance, and nothing like up close.

My personal theory is that there were intermingling between men and CotF, a long time ago, and that is why there are humans with skinchanging abilities, such as the wargs and the greenseers. The Starks, the Reeds and the Blackwoods are probably descendants of both lines, but that is just my theory. The traits are not really visible anymore, but some traits remain in them and the Reeds that have been isolated for a long time still resemble the CotF a little bit more than the other families.

Barriston said that Jenny claimed that she was a COTF. Jenny was a close friend of hers.


The COTF that Bran meets he at first mistakes for Arya. Later Leaf tells Bran:

Quote

"...I was born in the time of the dragon, and for two hundred years I walked the world of men, to watch and listen and learn. I might be walking still, but my legs were sore and my heart was weary, so I turned my feet for home."

So the COTF must know how to glamour themselves or else someone would have noticed.

Bran was told that those who receive the gift will have red or green eyes.

The Ghost of High Heart has red eyes and Thoros told Arya that the weirwood whispers in her ears when she sleeps.

Based on that info I think she is a COTF. IDK about Old Nan though.


EDIT: I just remembered that High Heart was considered sacred to the COTF so it makes sense that she would want to stay there.

Edited by ARYa_Nym, 19 April 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[IVI4RCU5]

There is actually a page on the wiki for this sort of thing, although it is incomplete, so if you guys are interested in adding to it...

http://awoiaf.wester...ex.php/Theories

[sheppard]

gerion lannister may yet be alive

http://asoiaf.wester...__fromsearch__1

[sheppard]

Apple Martini, on 18 April 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

I don't say this often on here because it's almost never true, but ... my mind, it is blown.

the description of a chimera on wikipedia......the dragon has 3 heads.....one is a lion......not sure where the goat fits in yet

"She was the mother of Chimaera who breathed raging fire, a creature fearful, great, swift-footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion; in her hinderpart, a dragon; and in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire

[Eyron I]

ARYa_Nym, on 19 April 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Barriston said that Jenny claimed that she was a COTF. Jenny was a close friend of hers.

That is the evidence we have that she is a CotF. I don't think it is conclusive, but that is a matter of opinion I suppose.

Quote

The COTF that Bran meets he at first mistakes for Arya. ...

Yes, I mentioned in my post that he thinks she look like a human child from a distance. But when he sees Leaf up close, she could not be mistaken for human and that is straight from Bran's thoughts.
We get to see the Ghost of High Heart up close and she does not look like a CotF.

Quote

So the COTF must know how to glamour themselves or else someone would have noticed.

I also said she could be a CotF glamored up in my post... Still, from the way she looks, she does not look much like a CotF which was the matter I was responding to. To say that she looks like a CotF and that makes it possible that Old Nan is a CotF is not a good argument to me.

Quote

Bran was told that those who receive the gift will have red or green eyes.

Albinos also have red eyes in Martin world, seen in Ghost and Bloodraven.

Quote

The Ghost of High Heart has red eyes and Thoros told Arya that the weirwood whispers in her ears when she sleeps.

The weirwood whispers in most ears when they sleep on them, Theon, Jaime to mention other cases of weirwood dreams.

Quote

Based on that info I think she is a COTF. IDK about Old Nan though.

Based on this I think it's possible she is a glamored CotF, but I don't think it has been confirmed in any way. I didn't find the hints subtle, but maybe that is because the CotF and the faction involved with them is the one that mosts interest me.

We also have another instance of a tiny woman that looks like a girl but is much older, the waif in the House of Black and White. She was poisoned when she was young and stopped growing. She is not a CotF so we have been shown that there are other possibilities to stunted growth.

Quote

EDIT: I just remembered that High Heart was considered sacred to the COTF so it makes sense that she would want to stay there.

On the other hand the Ghost of High Heart does not seem like the most lucid and sane person, she could be a human with a gift she could not handle well. And that she thinks she is a CotF, but is not, is a possibility. The trees are sacred to more than the CotF in Westeros.

That said I think it is very possible that she it a CotF in glamor, and said as much in my previous post.

Edit: typo

Edited by Eaeron I, 19 April 2012 - 06:44 AM.

[bikie]

direwolf howls as warnings:

summer howled before bran was attacked in bed
grey wind howled before robb was killed
assuming it was nymeria arya heard howling in her dream before the attack on the castle when she was with yoren
sansa not having a direwolf gets no warning before danger or doing something asinine
and not sure about ghost howling with jon, can't remember any specific events