161 replies to this topic

[Sera dy Relandrant]

When Tyrion gave her the choice, why didn't she choose Lancel? I'm confused...

[Dr. Pepper]

She tells Tyrion that she remembers he was kind to her.  Lancel was never kind to her.  Better the enemy who is kind than the enemy who is not.

[Winter's Knight]

Ten minutes before the wedding? When the Queen had told her that she was to wed Tyrion?

[Lyanna Stark]

Lady Daelya Velaryon, on 17 April 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

When Tyrion gave her the choice, why didn't she choose Lancel? I'm confused...

Because Sansa recognised that one Lannister is as bad as another, and Tyrion had never been outright cruel to her, which Lancel had been when he read out the accusations before she was stripped and beaten.

[Thunderfist]

She thought that with a small husband, it would be alot easier to kill him and get rid of the body.

[Free Northman]

She was probably frozen in terror, as usual, and incapable of independent action.

You know, similar to her little sister, who had to make it through the Tickler's prison, Harrenhal and journey through a war torn wasteland on her own...

Edited by Free Northman, 17 April 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[DannySpud]

I think she's probably just trying to not piss Cersei off, being a hostage all she can do is try to keep out of trouble.

[ElizaMartell]

Free Northman, on 17 April 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

She was probably frozen in terror, as usual, and incapable of independent action.

You know, similar to her little sister, who had to make it through the Tickler's prison, Harrenhal and journey through a war torn wasteland on her own...

Did you really have to bring up Arya in order to bash Sansa? Honestly, the immaturity in this forum sometimes is very embarrassing. Lots of internet tough guys.

[Free Northman]

ElizaMartell, on 17 April 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Did you really have to bring up Arya in order to bash Sansa? Honestly, the immaturity in this forum sometimes is very embarrassing. Lots of internet tough guys.

Yes I did. It is an inevitable comparison that arises in my mind whenever I discuss Sansa.

And inevitably, Sansa comes out looking very bad by comparison.

It's not her fault, though. Martin wanted to create a weak character amongst the Stark siblings, and Sansa meets that requirement perfectly.

[Thunderfist]

On second thought, she should´ve married Lancel. The boy was half a corpse and some rough "foreplay" probably would´ve killed him. Then Sansa could´ve claimed that she needed a few years to mourn

[Lyanna Stark]

Free Northman, on 17 April 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Yes I did. It is an inevitable comparison that arises in my mind whenever I discuss Sansa.

And inevitably, Sansa comes out looking very bad by comparison.

It's not her fault, though. Martin wanted to create a weak character amongst the Stark siblings, and Sansa meets that requirement perfectly.

That's totally ridiculous. Sansa realised Tyrion was never cruel to her, which Lancel was. She had a very rational reason for thinking that although it was awful to marry Tyrion, at least he had tried to stop the beatings.

Is this another "Oh Sansa should have grabbed a knife and stabbed Joffrey/Tyrion/Cersei/<insert character here> ? Eliza Martell said it really well: Internet tough guy mentality.

That level of discourse is appropriate for Twilight readers, not for this board IMO.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 17 April 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[Free Northman]

Lyanna Stark, on 17 April 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

That's totally ridiculous. Sansa realised Tyrion was never cruel to her, which Lancel was. She had a very rational reason for thinking that although it was awful to marry Tyrion, at least he had tried to stop the beatings.

Is this another "Oh Sansa should have grabbed a knife and stabbed Joffrey/Tyrion/Cersei/<insert character here> ? Eliza Martell said it really well: Internet tough guy mentality.

That level of discourse is appropriate for Twilight readers, not for this board IMO.

No, it's a "What would Asha/Arya/Lyanna/ one of the Sandsnakes have done in Sansa's place" mentality.

Sansa's a whimp. Which might be realistic, but is rather uninspiring to read about.

Might as well have Jeyne Pool as a viewpoint character, for all the initiative she's shown in this entire series.

[Lummel]

Lady Daelya Velaryon, on 17 April 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

When Tyrion gave her the choice, why didn't she choose Lancel? I'm confused...

I don't think it was a real choice that Tyrion was offering, its more of a salve to his conscience, I mean he is not in a position to halt the marriage and have Lancel marry Sansa if that is what Sansa had asked for.  Tywin had spoken afterall and Tyrion had already discussed the matter with his Lord Father who as far I as I recall did not even need to threeaten to smile to get his way on that occasion.

[Free Northman]

Lummel, on 17 April 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

I don't think it was a real choice that Tyrion was offering, its more of a salve to his conscience, I mean he is not in a position to halt the marriage and have Lancel marry Sansa if that is what Sansa had asked for.  Tywin had spoken afterall and Tyrion had already discussed the matter with his Lord Father who as far I as I recall did not even need to threeaten to smile to get his way on that occasion.

I agree with you.

[Lyanna Stark]

Free Northman, on 17 April 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

No, it's a "What would Asha/Arya/Lyanna/ one of the Sandsnakes have done in Sansa's place" mentality.

Sansa's a whimp. Which might be realistic, but is rather uninspiring to read about.

Might as well have Jeyne Pool as a viewpoint character, for all the initiative she's shown in this entire series.

You can't know what Arya, Asha or Lyanna would have done, nor the Sandsnakes. Because a. they are not a unfiform mass and b. none of them would have been able to affect the outcome anymore than Sansa could have.

Say Asha had been in Sansa's place. How do you suggest she would have got out of the wedding? Beating the Kingsguard? Fighting her way out of there? How?

[Lummel]

Free Northman, on 17 April 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

...Sansa's a whimp. Which might be realistic, but is rather uninspiring to read about...

It's true that she does not jump through the air and knee men in the groin but she does show bravery.  She saves Ser Dontos, she climbs down the rock face from the Red Keep to the shore, she takes charge of her cousin and leads him across the narrow bridge despite being scared herself which at the least conforms to her father's definition of bravery.  It's a realistic type of bravery given her background and character I feel.

[Free Northman]

Lyanna Stark, on 17 April 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

You can't know what Arya, Asha or Lyanna would have done, nor the Sandsnakes. Because a. they are not a unfiform mass and b. none of them would have been able to affect the outcome anymore than Sansa could have.

Say Asha had been in Sansa's place. How do you suggest she would have got out of the wedding? Beating the Kingsguard? Fighting her way out of there? How?

Well, Asha was supposed to marry some old Ironman, and took the initiative to get out of there.

Arya was supposed to be captured repeatedly, but took the initiative to look for opportunities of escape.

Arianne was supposed to do X, and did Y.

The Sandsnakes the same.

Lyanna the same.

The point is, Sansa isn't even trying. She just meekly goes along with whatever those in more powerful positions suggest for her to do.

Arya would have gone to the godswood 10 times, and then at least tried and escape attempt.

Arriane tried and succeeded in winning over one of her maids to send a message off from captivity.

The Sandsnakes are full of plans and plots.

Arya never stops planning, even when captured by the Tickler, then by Boltons men, then by the Brotherhood, then by the Hound. She fails repeatedly, but never gives up until eventually she makes it.

Sansa doesn't even try. She doesn't even try to THINK of a plan. We know, because we share her thoughts in her viewpoint chapters.

Instead, the best she can come up with is hoping that Robb would win the war and bring her Joffrey's head.

Even in the Dontos plan, she is entirely passive, just moving like a puppet on a string to Dontos's suggestions.

Sansa is simply a passive character displaying zero initiative to try and better her circumstances.

[Serie]

(I'm sure you're going to make me feel bad about what I'm about to say but I'll just be honest and hope you'll understand of my pure, good intentions)


....which makes me wonder, nearly everyone is blaming Daenerys for doing nothing but saying how she's the blood of the dragon but its ok for Sansa doing nothing but daydreaming how she has the blood of the wolf....


True, Sansa could have done nothing at that point. And good for her cause otherwise she'd be dead.
And when it comes to Sansa/Arya comparison, which IMHO is exactly what the writer wants us to do, it is one character adding value to the other. Its ok to like one more than the other but its pretty clear for me that its the two sides of a coin.

Plus I found the original post of Free Northman funny but that's just me and my humour

[Winter's Knight]

Free Northman, on 17 April 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

No, it's a "What would Asha/Arya/Lyanna/ one of the Sandsnakes have done in Sansa's place" mentality.

Sansa's a whimp. Which might be realistic, but is rather uninspiring to read about.

Might as well have Jeyne Pool as a viewpoint character, for all the initiative she's shown in this entire series.

Asha was captured by Stannis and unable to get away.
The Sand Snakes were prisoners of Doran Martell and could not pull off any miraculous escapes.
Arya needed the help of magical assassin to escape Harrenhal.

Pointless criticism is pointless.

[just an Other]

Because, she is a good little girl who does as she is told. And I'm not saying that to bash her. It doesn't seem possible to change the groom five minutes before the wedding and making waves at this instant would not have benefited her in any way. I also don't believe her thinking went beyond that. The book doesn't say that she weighed the benefits of marrying Lancel instead of Tyrion in the space of the five seconds it took her to respond.