87 replies to this topic

[Rittmeister]

Why the Starks deserve to die:

Eddard is just unbelieveably stupid. He made 100s of grave mistakes. Didn't anyone ever tell him about the existance of cunning people?
He should have stayed in Winterfell forever, never killed Sansa's wolf.
He put every single person in the council off by telling them outright to basically cut off the money flow to them
* told his 13yo kids about his plans to leave
* trusted Littlefinger despite he knew that LF is jealous of his wife and went into every trap.

Catelyn & Robb
* a rather stupid woman really, but thinks herself cunning, and entitled to meddle in every affair of her King son.
* orders the hanging of Brienne without trial judge, or evidence, what a hypocrite of a "good" person.
* walks into the Frey marriage trap, when they should have eliminated the Freys themselves already after they proved to be so unrelyable - you simply can't have people like the Freys in a key position like this crossing. Nobody would have blamed them if they had slaughtered the whole Frey family.

Sansa is simply dumb as bread. I don't think even Littlefinger's company and guidance will improve that, but we shall see.

Jon the same idiot as his father basically. I like the guy they casted for the TV show, cause he manages to look real stupid most of the time - very appropriate.

Bran - annoying little brat. too bad Jaime failed in exterminating him. Now he fills 1/3 of the books with his boring storyline.

Arya - not the smartest either, but I like her, she has potential for improvement still.

[eyeheartsansa]

Some good thoughts here.  You should start a blog!

Edited by eyeheartsansa, 17 April 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Rittmeister]

eyeheartsansa, on 17 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Some good thoughts here.  You should start a blog!

if it please you m'lord

[Ser Hippie]

Don't forget Rickon. After watching an episode of Game of Thrones last year, he too brought a jackass and a honeycomb to a brothel

[NomadicDirewolf]

I really dont get people who hate the starks for being stupid, they clearly havent grasped the characters at all
Ned is completely aware  of the other people playing the game around him, he's just doesnt want to play as it involves doing bad things for your, or someone else's gain, and he's too honourable for that, because of this, he needs littlefinger to instruct him on how to protect himself from those trying to play the game, but he doesn't want any spies of his own, because it's dishonourable, and obviously he had to get is daughters out the way unless Cersei captured them and used them against them, and obviously you must tell your daughters they're going you cant spring it on them in the middle of the night, you'd have to move loads of staff and things and give them warning first. Neds reasonably clever and aware, its just his principles prevent him from protecting himself, and they are ultimately his downfall, and i dont think anyone can fault him for that.
Catelyn
The most important thing in Cats world are her children, and she'll do anything to get them back, again not stupidity. I dont think she thinks herself cunning though. You clearly havent grasped stoneheart.  Stoneheart isn't the same as Catelyn. She's Cat but has died and then come back to life, snapped a bit after losing nearly all of her children, which i'm sure loads of mothers will do, and is out to reek revenge on anyone she see's as remotely guilty in their deaths, such as Brienne, who she believes betrayed her for jaime.
Robb
He wouldn't have killed all of the Frey family,he's too honourable for that, killing almost 100 people, only one of which is guilty of having suspect loyalty to his liege lords, which at that point was all that walder frey was, would sound appalling to him. Plus if he took the Twins, or at least wiped out the Frey forces, it would cost him loads of men, plus the 4,000 Frey men he'd lost, so many men that his already pretty slim chances of victory would've been practically 0, especially if he was wanting to liberate the north from the ironborn. He had to go to the rw, he was fully aware it could be a trap, but he had to do it if he any chance of reclaiming the north or winning the war.He risked his life for his people, which is what a king should do. Plus he's badass and the best general in
the series.
Sansa
I actually agree with you, at least in aGoT, afterward she got less annoying, still dont particularly like her.
Jon
See Eddard essentially, other than the events bit.Plus he's badass, like Robb. And in the TV show or the books he doesnt seem to be an idiot, he's a great character
Bran
Dont know why you're complaining about him taking up too much time, he only had 2 or 3 chapters in the whole ADwD and not that many in ASoS too. He can control wolves and see into the past and future
Arya
She's like the complete opposite of sansa, which is part of the reason why i love her. Plus she's training to be one of the faceless men, and if they arent cool i dont know what is.
Rickon
The wildness of his wolf and him is crazy. Plus you cant really go after him for being stupid, he's 3 when the books start, 6 in the tv show

[LordBloodraven]

Hmm, your rant about the Stark's congenital stupidity reeks more of admiration than hatred. It's as if, you wanted them to be more cooler,,,,,and to be still alive

[lightbringer333]

the whole story is between wolf and dragons basically. how u can say stark deserve to die. ?? its love story between ice(jon) and fire(dany).

[The Mother of The Others]

I'd say that at this moment in the story the starks do deserve to die out, not because of any stupidity on their part, though.  Rather because their family has taken a lethal hit in the long term power struggle between the ruling families.  It's a situation they basically can't be expected to recover from.  Which is why the story has everyone expecting to see them recover from it.  We're supposed to root for them.  And the reason they're so compelling to read about is because we all know that the rest of this story should be an account of the stark's final demise.  That's what you'd bet on if you were in Vegas playing the odds.  But they should be able to beat the odds, seeing as how it's their story.

[Dr. Pepper]

Yep, let's kill all of the Starks right now and demand that GRRM restart this series from the very beginning, sans Starks.  I totally wouldn't mind spending the next 20+ years waiting for 7-8 books to be finished.  While we're at it, we might as well kill all people who have flaws and make mistakes.

[James Arryn]

Rittmeister, on 17 April 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

if it please you m'lord

What happened to 'out'?

(j/k)

Edited by James Arryn, 17 April 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[Howling Mad]

The Starks are all that stand between the realm of men and the Others. For 8000 years the have kept the peace. If the Starks the old Kings of Winter die off, well lets just say Winter wont be going with them.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

DUH

Rittmeister, on 17 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Why the Starks deserve to die:

Eddard is just unbelieveably stupid. He made 100s of grave mistakes. Didn't anyone ever tell him about the existance of cunning people?
He should have stayed in Winterfell forever, never killed Sansa's wolf.
He put every single person in the council off by telling them outright to basically cut off the money flow to them
* told his 13yo kids about his plans to leave
* trusted Littlefinger despite he knew that LF is jealous of his wife and went into every trap.

Catelyn & Robb
* a rather stupid woman really, but thinks herself cunning, and entitled to meddle in every affair of her King son.
* orders the hanging of Brienne without trial judge, or evidence, what a hypocrite of a "good" person.
* walks into the Frey marriage trap, when they should have eliminated the Freys themselves already after they proved to be so unrelyable - you simply can't have people like the Freys in a key position like this crossing. Nobody would have blamed them if they had slaughtered the whole Frey family.

Sansa is simply dumb as bread. I don't think even Littlefinger's company and guidance will improve that, but we shall see.

Jon the same idiot as his father basically. I like the guy they casted for the TV show, cause he manages to look real stupid most of the time - very appropriate.

Bran - annoying little brat. too bad Jaime failed in exterminating him. Now he fills 1/3 of the books with his boring storyline.

Arya - not the smartest either, but I like her, she has potential for improvement still.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Howling4Reed, on 17 April 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

The Starks are all that stand between the realm of men and the Others. For 8000 years the have kept the peace. If the Starks the old Kings of Winter die off, well lets just say Winter wont be going with them.

meh. Its mostly Ned.  There's no evidence Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna or Benjen are anything like Ned. In fact there's evidence they're not.

[Ghost714]

Rittmeister, on 17 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Why the Starks deserve to die:

Eddard is just unbelieveably stupid. He made 100s of grave mistakes. Didn't anyone ever tell him about the existance of cunning people?
He should have stayed in Winterfell forever, never killed Sansa's wolf.
He put every single person in the council off by telling them outright to basically cut off the money flow to them
* told his 13yo kids about his plans to leave
* trusted Littlefinger despite he knew that LF is jealous of his wife and went into every trap.

Catelyn & Robb
* a rather stupid woman really, but thinks herself cunning, and entitled to meddle in every affair of her King son.
* orders the hanging of Brienne without trial judge, or evidence, what a hypocrite of a "good" person.
* walks into the Frey marriage trap, when they should have eliminated the Freys themselves already after they proved to be so unrelyable - you simply can't have people like the Freys in a key position like this crossing. Nobody would have blamed them if they had slaughtered the whole Frey family.

Sansa is simply dumb as bread. I don't think even Littlefinger's company and guidance will improve that, but we shall see.

Jon the same idiot as his father basically. I like the guy they casted for the TV show, cause he manages to look real stupid most of the time - very appropriate.

Bran - annoying little brat. too bad Jaime failed in exterminating him. Now he fills 1/3 of the books with his boring storyline.

Arya - not the smartest either, but I like her, she has potential for improvement still.

This analysis of the Starks is the only thing I would call stupid. I don't even care to argue everything your wrong about, because I pretty much see this as nothing more than trolling.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

NomadicDirewolf, on 17 April 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I really dont get people who hate the starks for being stupid, they clearly havent grasped the characters at all
Ned is completely aware  of the other people playing the game around him, he's just doesnt want to play as it involves doing bad things for your, or someone else's gain, and he's too honourable for that

Yeah.  That's WHY he's stupid

Quote

, because of this, he needs littlefinger to instruct him on how to protect himself from those trying to play the game, but he doesn't want any spies of his own, because it's dishonourable, and obviously he had to get is daughters out the way unless Cersei captured them and used them against them, and obviously you must tell your daughters they're going you cant spring it on them in the middle of the night, you'd have to move loads of staff and things and give them warning first. Neds reasonably clever and aware, its just his principles prevent him from protecting himself, and they are ultimately his downfall, and i dont think anyone can fault him for that.
Catelyn
The most important thing in Cats world are her children, and she'll do anything to get them back, again not stupidity. I dont think she thinks herself cunning though. You clearly havent grasped stoneheart.  Stoneheart isn't the same as Catelyn. She's Cat but has died and then come back to life, snapped a bit after losing nearly all of her children, which i'm sure loads of mothers will do, and is out to reek revenge on anyone she see's as remotely guilty in their deaths, such as Brienne, who she believes betrayed her for jaime.
Robb
He wouldn't have killed all of the Frey family,he's too honourable for that, killing almost 100 people, only one of which is guilty of having suspect loyalty to his liege lords, which at that point was all that walder frey was, would sound appalling to him. Plus if he took the Twins, or at least wiped out the Frey forces, it would cost him loads of men, plus the 4,000 Frey men he'd lost, so many men that his already pretty slim chances of victory would've been practically 0, especially if he was wanting to liberate the north from the ironborn. He had to go to the rw, he was fully aware it could be a trap, but he had to do it if he any chance of reclaiming the north or winning the war.He risked his life for his people, which is what a king should do. Plus he's badass and the best general in
the series.
Sansa
I actually agree with you, at least in aGoT, afterward she got less annoying, still dont particularly like her.
Jon
See Eddard essentially, other than the events bit.Plus he's badass, like Robb. And in the TV show or the books he doesnt seem to be an idiot, he's a great character
Bran
Dont know why you're complaining about him taking up too much time, he only had 2 or 3 chapters in the whole ADwD and not that many in ASoS too. He can control wolves and see into the past and future
Arya
She's like the complete opposite of sansa, which is part of the reason why i love her. Plus she's training to be one of the faceless men, and if they arent cool i dont know what is.
Rickon
The wildness of his wolf and him is crazy. Plus you cant really go after him for being stupid, he's 3 when the books start, 6 in the tv show

[Rogue Knight]

People are dumb by nature though. Look at horror movie which consist of the dumbest people (characters), but reality states that if put in that same situation (horror movie) it is quite possible you would make the same dumb mistake.

Plus if every character in a story was "smart" it wouldn't make for a compelling story simply because "perfection" just doesn't exist in the real world.

It's like saying every female actor should be skinny and sexy.

Edited by Kagoora, 17 April 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[RhaenysBalerion]

Quick tempers, slow minds. Littlefinger grasped the essence. I don't say they should die out, but I don't exactly get the "Oh, GRRM, please leave the Starks alone, poor guys suffered enough" point. I mean they suffered because of their own stupidity. Except for Arya and Bran. But Cat, Robb, Ned and Sansa all suffered because of their own endless blindness and stupidity and naivety. That's all folks.

[FuzzyJAM]

If trying to act morally is stupidity then I'm all for idiocy.

[Buckwheat]

Rittmeister, on 17 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Catelyn & Robb
* a rather stupid woman really, but thinks herself cunning, and entitled to meddle in every affair of her King son.
* orders the hanging of Brienne without trial judge, or evidence, what a hypocrite of a "good" person.

Catelyn Stark is not the same person as Lady Stoneheart.
She is much more cunning than her son (who cares about him being king in this discussion, anyway? Words are wind.). She advised him not to send Theon to Pyke and to get rid of Raynald Westerling.

I am not going to bother answer your other "arguments". Why did you read the books at all?

[RhaenysBalerion]

FuzzyJAM, on 17 April 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

If trying to act morally is stupidity then I'm all for idiocy.

Trying to act morally is very admirable, but if you don't realize that you are going to such extremities in trying to act morally that it's getting you killed and you are a grown man, that's stupidity.