33 replies to this topic

[Random person in the North]

...isn't the same as "you will be betrayed three times".  Not that anyone mystic from Qarth was ever known for being straight forward and obvious but surely the wording leaves open the possibility that the "treasons" are not of Danny but by her or simply witnessed by her?

[theguyfromtheVale]

Indeed. And if we apply that to the visions Dany had that most probably relate to the treasons (the bride of death triad), it gets even stranger: all these treasons have alreay happened. Remember she sees Viserys 'crowned' by Drogo (treason for gold), Rhaego, who was killed by MMD (treason for blood) and Rhaegar being slain on the Trident (treason for love).

So, ultimately, I'd say they all have already happened, but Dany is totally oblivious to all of them save Rhaego's death, and she might well be misunderstanding this part of the prophecy.

[ghost the direwolf]

I for one do not believe that any of the treason have past yet. but that is just me i may be wrong

[atia-]

I think the treasons are whatever Dany make them to be, and she seems very confused about them now, and isn't even sure if they've already happened or not.  As a queen, I can only imagine you'd be betrayed a lot more than three times.

[Mini-mitch]

I think that the treasons may not necessary happen to Dany "three treasons you will know", this, to me, indicates that she will be told, be betrayed, betray someone or learn about a treason.

I don't think anywhere is it stated that the treasons will happen to Dany, just because she will known of them, does not mean they will happen, to her. It could happen to Jorah, Tyrion or Jon and she will find out about them when/if she meets them.

There is also a bit of me now that believes the treasons will not actually happen, and it is just something that was said to make her think this way, and therefore start to loose the trust of the wrong people, therein setting herself up for something terrible to happen...

[Cardinal Sin]

Perhaps one of the treasons will be her leaving burning Meereen behind without doing anything to save it in order to get to Westeros?

A man can dream.

[Patchface12]

Cardinal Sin, on 17 April 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Perhaps one of the treasons will be her leaving burning Meereen behind without doing anything to save it in order to get to Westeros?

A man can dream.

I kind of hoped Mereen would be the third fire she would light, but as a mercy to a city dying of the flux

I don't think Jorah counts as one of the treasons. What he did was certainly dishonest, but he did save Dany from the wine seller in Vaes Dothrak, not to mention informing for Varys, who seems to need Dany for his plans and thus want her alive.

So I think her betrayals are MirrI Maz Duur for blood, Brown Ben Plumm for gold, and Barristan Selmy for love (his love of Ashara Dayne/ Septa Lemore, that is)

I think their will come a time Jon Connington discovers Aegon is a fake and reports it to Barristan in hopes of telling Dany (who's elsewhere for whatever reason) but he rats him out to Ashara/ Lemore and is probably killed

Edited by Patchface12, 17 April 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[kg1982]

The first triplet to bed, for life, and for blood occur in the first book - Drogo, MIrri, and dragons.

The second to dread, for death, and for gold occur in Meereen. Drogon, the siege of Meereen, and I'm thinking Daario.

The love triplet occurs in Westeos and probably involves Jon.

[Terminated]

Isn' t the love one about Jorah ?

[Serie]

Terminated, on 18 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Isn' t the love one about Jorah ?

nah, not likely methinks.
Dany is not in love with Jorah and Jorah is more obsessed with Dany because she reminds him of his wife rather than in love with her.

[Gurkhal]

I think the Treason for Love is will be when Tyrion betrays Daenerys for his love of Jaime. But maybe that's just me seeing them getting together in the end.

[Charles Stuart]

I don't think any of them have actually happened yet. Just a hunch of mine.

[Blisscraft]

Gurkhal, on 18 April 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

I think the Treason for Love is will be when Tyrion betrays Daenerys for his love of Jaime. But maybe that's just me seeing them getting together in the end.

I love this theory!

[Bolivar]

Keep in mind that Quaithe has been trying to get to go to Ashai since she met her in ACoK. The Ashai may have their own selfish purpose for Dany, much like Varys/Illyrio/Braavos, the Undying, and Xaro all had. We don't know anything about Ashai so it's harder to imagine what their goals are than, say, Illyrio or Xaro.

I do believe she will go east to circumnavigate the globe and reach Westeros, and Ashai will be perhaps the most pivotal part of her story, where a huge revelation will be uncovered.

[talleyban]

Could also be that Dany is the one that will do the treasons.

Blood- Dany "killed" the rightful King Viserys
Gold- ? -perhaps resuming the slave trade or eventually abandoning Meereen for gold to make it back to Westeros.
Love- ?

[Tropxe]

I definitely don't think Jorah is the "for love" one. It doesn't make sense, and it seems kind of odd that Dany would think it was that one, since she's usually so intelligent and perceptive. She took it that way because he was in love with her, but his reason for "treason" wasn't the love he felt for her; indeed, that very love is what stopped his ongoing treason. It would involve someone backstabbing her because they love another, not because they love her. Also, Ben Plumm didn't turn his back on her for gold, he made a point of spelling out (to Dany herself, I believe) that it's not about gold, it's about staying alive by being on the winning side - he told her that story about the dead man he found with a stash of gold hidden about him, if you recall.

Also, if you want to be pedantic about it, treason refers to when you work against your own country in some way, perhaps by spying for a foreign country, perhaps by trying to kill your country's leader. When Mirri Maz Duur killed Rhaego, that was not treason per se. She didn't not work against the Lhazarene, her own people, in fact she did them a favour by assassinating a foreign leader. Jorah is more ambiguous, he's technically no longer Westerosi since he was exiled, but was he actually an official subject of Khal Drogo (and thus his Khaleesi)? I don't know if this is intentional on GRRM's part, but it's almost like Dany is being arrogant and presumptious by considering these acts "treason" rather than simply people being selfish or conniving.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Tropxe, on 18 April 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I definitely don't think Jorah is the "for love" one. It doesn't make sense, and it seems kind of odd that Dany would think it was that one, since she's usually so intelligent and perceptive. She took it that way because he was in love with her, but his reason for "treason" wasn't the love he felt for her; indeed, that very love is what stopped his ongoing treason. It would involve someone backstabbing her because they love another, not because they love her. Also, Ben Plumm didn't turn his back on her for gold, he made a point of spelling out (to Dany herself, I believe) that it's not about gold, it's about staying alive by being on the winning side - he told her that story about the dead man he found with a stash of gold hidden about him, if you recall.

Also, if you want to be pedantic about it, treason refers to when you work against your own country in some way, perhaps by spying for a foreign country, perhaps by trying to kill your country's leader. When Mirri Maz Duur killed Rhaego, that was not treason per se. She didn't not work against the Lhazarene, her own people, in fact she did them a favour by assassinating a foreign leader. Jorah is more ambiguous, he's technically no longer Westerosi since he was exiled, but was he actually an official subject of Khal Drogo (and thus his Khaleesi)? I don't know if this is intentional on GRRM's part, but it's almost like Dany is being arrogant and presumptious by considering these acts "treason" rather than simply people being selfish or conniving.

Jorah didn't stop because he loved her, he stopped because Varys told him to take out the hitman and after Robert died nobody really cared about Dany so they didn't need his services any longer. He definitely betrayed her but I don't think it's the treason that Quaithe promised.
I agree with the Ben Plumm argumen though
MMD betrayed Dany, she won her trust to avenge the blood shed by Drogo. It's pretty straight forward that that's a blood treason. However, I don't think that is the one Quaithe meant because Dany meant Quaithe afterwards so she could have meant "you will know 3 treasons in the future"

[Not_a_Lady_Brienne]

I've been lurking for a while, but this post finally got me to sign up!

talleyban, on 18 April 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Could also be that Dany is the one that will do the treasons.

Blood- Dany "killed" the rightful King Viserys
Gold- ? -perhaps resuming the slave trade or eventually abandoning Meereen for gold to make it back to Westeros.
Love- ?

This occured to me too, that the 3 treasons will be things Dany does.  I was thinking:
1: Betraying the slavemaster by having Drogon kill him, to steal the Unsullied (Blood maybe, to keep Drogon?  Or gold, because she couldn't pay the price for the Unsullied?)
2: Betraying Hizdahr by sleeping with Daario (the treason for love maybe, though "love" is debatable)
3: ?

[eyeheartsansa]

This is all very fuzzy.  Maybe it's...

Gold - Xaro (he just wants the dragon, worth lots of gold)
Love - Jorah
Blood - Aegon (a pretender who is supposed to have the same blood, but does not.)

[Serie]

if this prophecy drives us mad, take a minute to think what it does to Dany.....