House of the Undying

[ckal]

Spoilers will follow for anyone who has not gotten to this chapter later on in the book yet.

If any of these are spoilers for future books, please refrain from revealing the spoiler, and just state that it is a spoiler in which particular book. Thank you!

My question here is mainly; who or what are these descriptions referring to? This could also be fun speculation for those who don't know, but please once again, no spoilers for future books!

1)

The first one is on p. 701 (Bantam Books paperback). The description is clearly of a king in the Red Keep (a door on the left hand side of the hallway) who says, "Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat," he said to a man below him. "Let him be the king of ashes."

-Who is this man, and who is he referring to?

2) The next room on the left is Rhaegar Targaryen speaking to Elia Martell about his son Aegon.

When Dany finally gets to the room of the Undying, this is when they come fast and furious (p. 706). I'll list them out below:

3) A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

4) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

-Stannis?

5) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

6) From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire....

7) A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly

8) A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness

-Something to do with the Wall?

[the maester]

I assume you haven't read pass aCoK, and "future books" refer to the books you haven't read yet

1) This is in a future book

3) Most people think that this is something that could have happened" and is Daenerys' stillborn son Rhaego as a man with a burning city behind him.

4) Yes - Stannis

5 & 6) Don't know - likely in a future (unwritten) book

7 & 8) Not sure, but future books hint at what these might be.

A good spoiler free description of the visions in this chapter is given here:http://towerofthehand.com/books/102/049/index.html#f8

There are some spoiler in the footnotes, but kindly hidden.

[ckal]

the maester-

Yes, I have not read past ACOK yet, so future books to me being ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD. Thank you for understanding.

I know that these visions are potentially things past, present, future, or could have been or may be, so I figured this could be a fun topic as well.

Interested in seeing what #1 is...appears to be a reference to ASOS from the link you left (thanks). Good point about #3. At first I thought Drogo, then I re-read the sentence and saw the description of the hair and was a bit thrown off. But that makes sense.

[TyrionFan82]

Good topic ckal! Let me have a swing at it, granted I'm speculating:

1. Maybe something w/Robb and the Lannisters? Maybe they let him have the north?

2. N/A

3. A dream of Rhaego perhaps, I agreed, I can't think of anyone else w/that description

4. I think that's Stannis w/his sword.....what's it called?

5. Maybe Dany comes back and people cheer her and her bannermen

6. One of the dragons probably, these 2 I assume are way in a future book

7. No idea

8. I'd assume it has to do w/The Wall,m but have no idea what it could mean

I think you missed a few as well.

[ckal]

Hey Francisco, thanks!

#1 I'm really not sure about, because he was described as, "Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair." This sounds to me like an old Targaryen man from the past. But it doesn't specifically say any shade of purple eyes, and silver-grey kind of throws me off, so I'm not sure, but who else could it be? Only thing I can think of is Balon Greyjoy but it seems pretty clear it takes place in the Red Keep with all the dragon heads.

#3, would have been interesting if Rhaego survived, but he would only be a small child with virtually no influence on the end game in ASOIAF.

#4 In the ACOK prologue Melisandre attempts to recreate the legendary sword 'Lightbringer' for Stannis, although Davos states it is clearly a failure.

#5 Good point. Maybe old Targaryen alliances like the Martells, Redwynes, and Tyrell's will rally around Dany if she returns. Or maybe this is the past at some jousting tourney.

#6 Stone beast breathing shadow fire. Beats me! Sounds cool though. Hesitant to think it's one of Dany's dragons because they are not stone. Maybe another creature from the old days emerges.

#7 Same, no idea.

#8 Same here.

Yes I certainly left out some. Most notably the first room on the left that Dany comes across with the butchered people and a dead person with a wolf head on the throne in the room. I left out some others as they were very obvious or actually stated who is was it was referring to. There were also the 'threes' that the Undying told Dany would happen to her.

I'm about to go do some more reading and go to bed, but I can update the rest tomorrow.

[TyrionFan82]

Yeah, it's hard to tell if some of these are future or past visions since we get that Rhaegar and Elia vision so it makes you wonder. Happy reading!

[Xtopher]

The blue flower that grows in a wall of ice is "The Blue Winter Rose"

http://awoiaf.wester...lue_winter_rose

so it represents either Lyanna Stark or Brandon´s daughter taken by Bael the bard.

I assume its the latter cause it mentions a wall of ice and Bael climbed The Wall to take Brandon´s daughter and leave a ble winter rose behind.

[Dark Night Full of Ninjas]

1) I have no idea. I, too, have only read to CoK

3) Like most, I agree that this has something to do with Dany's stillborn son, Rhaego

4) Definitely sounds like Stannis to me

5) Maybe has something to do with people cheering for the Targaryens.

Another thought though, maybe its not necessarily a Targaryen dragon. Don't street performers or something have cloth dragons on poles? Memory of specific details is hazy.

6) Have no idea. I don't think its any dragon though; neither Dany's nor any dragon for that matter. Since Dany saw the vision, I'm sure she would recognize it as a dragon, if it was one, and not "a great stone beast." Probably a creature we've yet to see?

7) No idea, not even a guess

8) Maybe indicative of the popular R+L=J theory?

Or, maybe as Xtaphor mentioned, Brandon's daughter taken by Bael the Bard?

[ckal]

xtopher and dark night full of ninjas-

I just read that last night and today about the blue winter rose and Bael the bard, and with Lyanna wearing them on her head in the Theon chapter.

I think out of those two...it would have more reference Lyanna, since there may possibly be a connection there between Dany and Lyanna due to RLJ. I don't see any importance of Dany seeing a vision that has to do with Bael the Bard.

I too think that #6 is something that will emerge in books not yet released, since that makes sense about Dany not calling it a dragon.

[TyrionFan82]

This is a reason I love this series....we get these nuggets that make us pay attention to every thing & keeps us anxiously anticipaitng the next book.

[ckal]

Such a vast story where little threads are introduced early on and maybe just hinted at along the way and are answered books later, or not even answered yet, is something that could easily go wrong. But so far GRRM has done so with brilliance. I'm aware many people aren't big fans of AFFC and ADWD, so I'm not sure how it works out later on, but so far it is fantastic.

[TyrionFan82]

Yea, I can easily see where too many things could get away from an author in that situation. You really gotta be organized and make sure no plot holes arise. I'm interested in AFFC & ADWD too for those reasons, but wil read them nonetheless.

[Dark Night Full of Ninjas]

xtopher and dark night full of ninjas-

I just read that last night and today about the blue winter rose and Bael the bard, and with Lyanna wearing them on her head in the Theon chapter.

I think out of those two...it would have more reference Lyanna, since there may possibly be a connection there between Dany and Lyanna due to RLJ. I don't see any importance of Dany seeing a vision that has to do with Bael the Bard.

Yeah, out of the two things I mentioned, I agree that it has to do with Lyanna more than Bael the Bard. It just makes more sense, I think.

I am really loving the series so far. I've only read up to CoK, and now I think I'm going to wait until this GOT season on HBO is finished before I read on, but I'm excited to see what lies ahead!

[pinksand]

A good spoiler free description of the visions in this chapter is given here:http://towerofthehan...9/index.html#f8

There are some spoiler in the footnotes, but kindly hidden.

That Tower of the Hand site is outstanding. Thanks for the link!

[The Flayed Men]

Might i start with an apology for starting a thread similar to this, i hadnt fully read through this forum section.

I just cant seem to shake the idea in my head that #4 is relating to Jon Snow. I believe the red flaming sword relates to lightbringer, which was weilded by Azor Ahai? I think the figure holding the blade is Jon because;

1) Jon has blue eyes (simple :) )

2) If the R+L=J theory is correct then it would stand to reason that Jon is the prince that was promised (doesn't Melisandre believe that this is Stannis) and the one who is supposed to weild lightbringer to vanquish a great foe, if my memory serves.

Not a clue what the absense of a shadow might mean though

6) Have no idea. I don't think its any dragon though; neither Dany's nor any dragon for that matter. Since Dany saw the vision, I'm sure she would recognize it as a dragon, if it was one, and not "a great stone beast." Probably a creature we've yet to see?

Couldnt agree more with this, i mean we've already got Dragons, and Giants did exist so why the hell not some stony beast!

[ckal]

the flayed men-

It's all good don't worry about it.

I'm about 100% positive that #4 is relating to Stannis (IMO). At least at this point in time. I've finished ASOS and towards the end they talk about this more. Stannis has 'Lightbringer' and is described as having very blue eyes. Also, I would say 'cast no shadow' is referring in some way to Melisandre's Stannis shadow baby. Although Melisandre calls Stannis the Prince That Was Promised, I'm not sure if it is him or another character yet. We may not know until the series is close to being finished.

About #6.... you find out more about this in ASOS. Pay close attention to the Davos chapters when he is speaking with Stannis/Melisandre and describing Dragonstone, and you will find out that Melisandre is trying to get Stannis to do a particular act to summon these stone dragons so he can conquer/save Westeros/the world. I think this sounds pretty freakin awesome.

[justashadow]

i just read this chapter yesterday and had to reread it again. I'm still trying to figure out:

"The three fires must you light: one for life, one for death and one to love".

Life = dragons, death = Drogo/Rhaego Love = ?

"Three mounts must you ride: one to bed, one to dread, one to love".

one to bed = Drogo?, one to dread = ? one to love = ?

"Three treasons will you know: once for blood, once for gold and once for love"

once for blood = Minni Maur Das, once for gold = Viserys?(not sure of this one) once for love = ?

I'm curious as to what others think as well. I can't image that they have all taken place yet.

[TheSwordOfTheEvening]

one thing i dont understand about the house of the undying, was this some crazy warlock magic or was dany trippin out? cause she drank that blue liquid that all the other warlocks drink

[Lothar Imbel]

1) Is Aerys referring to Robert.

[TickTak77]

one thing i dont understand about the house of the undying, was this some crazy warlock magic or was dany trippin out? cause she drank that blue liquid that all the other warlocks drink

I think the ambiguity of the scene is very deliberate, and adds to the complexity of the scene.

Were these "visions" nothing more than Dany being on some sort of strange high due to the warlocks potion she was made to drink?

Were some of these visions exerpts from her past? Glimpses into her future? Suggestions of what might have been? (ex. Rhaego?).

I don't thinkt here's a 100% correct answer to that question, and I think that's been done on purpose.

One of the reasons (for me, personally) that the House of the Undying scene is so fascinating, is because we know that what Dany sees is extremely significant, but we just don't know as of yet how it will be significantly relevant to the rest of the narrative (the books beyond a Clash of Kings)

I'll admit to being really nervous about this scene pertaining to it's adaptation on screen ahead of Sunday's finale - it's far too complex a scene for it to be directly translated onto the TV screen, and I'm not convinced the TV show can leave it as ambiguous and uncertain as it is in the books, seeing as this represents Dany's big moment in season 2. I'm nervously excited to see how they play with this scene.