Anyone just started reading AGoT?

[justashadow]

So true about Lysa. I bet Catelyn would no longer trust a word in that secret message about the Queen too. Tyrion's opinion was the smartest in that regard, the thing he thought while being held prisoners.

I thought the conversation was interesting where it was mentioned that poison is a woman's weapon..so then perhaps Jon was poisoned by the Queen....a mysterious death..but I'm pretty sure that I'll have to read more books to find out.

I also liked Tyrion and Bronn's conversation. Tyrion knows that Bronn is only trusting so far. I have answered my own question about the dagger. It seems Tyrion is questioning it as he knows he was framed...I wonder when he will find out.

I think it will be interesting to see how Dany copes by herself...now with Viserys gone.

And poor Ned....he got caught up in the game but not by choice and even if he tries to the right thing...he is outnumbered. I praise him for doing the right thing but.....not with all the treachery behind the scenes.

2/3's of the way through and it keeps getting better.....

[Noelle Snow]

There's lots of twists and turns ahead. Things that seem minor in one chapter suddenly loom large later on.

Happy reading!

[justashadow]

Ty, Noelle.

so another question I have is:

Did the Lannisters also practice keeping the bloodline pure as well? Tywin married his cousin and Cersei makes reference to this when she is confronted by Ned about the children's parentage.

[DirePenguin]

I don't think so. Only the Targaryans. All other houses still thought about incest as a demonic thing.

[justashadow]

Thanks.

I didn't think so either but when Cersei references it after Ned's confrontation ...I wonder..I guess it's ok in her mind as she refers to th Targaryans keeping the bloodlines pure..its just something I thought of after reading that part. It must be part of Cersei's rationale (or what she thinks is rational).

[Glom]

I wonder what would have happened to Eddard if he didn´t find out about Joffreys nature. The Lannisters probably still would plot to get him away from the throne and court, but that wouldn´t be so hard as he is rather eager himself to get away from there. I guess the one thing keeping him in Kings Landing is king Robert.

[justashadow]

I wonder what would have happened to Eddard if he didn´t find out about Joffreys nature. The Lannisters probably still would plot to get him away from the throne and court, but that wouldn´t be so hard as he is rather eager himself to get away from there. I guess the one thing keeping him in Kings Landing is king Robert.

Yes, however, he still would have wanted to find out who pushed Bran out of the window and why? I think his loyalty to Robert kept him there although he hasn't always agreed with the King and so perhaps the politics would utimately get to him.

[Glom]

Eddard does not have much to go on, in the Bran case. He got all the info there was from littlefinger in the beginning. Littlefinger seem to be the one that helps Eddard to get to the poeple that knew what old Jon Arryn was up to. This must be deliberate by Littlefinger, I wonder what he has to gain in that.

[K.C.]

Hi there. As someone who's in a similar situation to you but a couple books further along, I just wanted to say that, yes, you're going to run into massive spoilers the second you leave this little cloistered section of the forums.

Ty, Noelle.

so another question I have is:

Did the Lannisters also practice keeping the bloodline pure as well? Tywin married his cousin and Cersei makes reference to this when she is confronted by Ned about the children's parentage.

My memory's not as clear on the circumstances of Tywin's marriage. It's definitely not a family tradition. Without giving anything away, Tywin and Tyrion both see marriages purely as a game of chess (or thrones ;)).

I wonder what would have happened to Eddard if he didn´t find out about Joffreys nature. The Lannisters probably still would plot to get him away from the throne and court, but that wouldn´t be so hard as he is rather eager himself to get away from there. I guess the one thing keeping him in Kings Landing is king Robert.

Even if it somehow stayed a secret, there's absolutely no way poor ol' Ned would have lasted. His sense of honor is as rigid as Stannis's sense of justice, except you actually like Ned. Which is why he had to die, I guess.

[justashadow]

Eddard does not have much to go on, in the Bran case. He got all the info there was from littlefinger in the beginning. Littlefinger seem to be the one that helps Eddard to get to the poeple that knew what old Jon Arryn was up to. This must be deliberate by Littlefinger, I wonder what he has to gain in that.

Littlefinger, he has a history with both the Starks and the Tullys so he is motivated by that as well as, his own greed and power.

[justashadow]

Hi there. As someone who's in a similar situation to you but a couple books further along, I just wanted to say that, yes, you're going to run into massive spoilers the second you leave this little cloistered section of the forums.

My memory's not as clear on the circumstances of Tywin's marriage. It's definitely not a family tradition. Without giving anything away, Tywin and Tyrion both see marriages purely as a game of chess (or thrones ;)).

Even if it somehow stayed a secret, there's absolutely no way poor ol' Ned would have lasted. His sense of honor is as rigid as Stannis's sense of justice, except you actually like Ned. Which is why he had to die, I guess.

I agree, it is surprising that Jon Arryn lasted as long as he did.

[justashadow]

What is with Walder Frey? If he is a Tully bannerman, how come did didn't want fight? Or could it be that he is angry with Lysa for not fostering 2 of his children? I wonder if he would have changed houses as he mentioned that he would tal ked to Tywin Lannister. Anyways, it seem as if Catelyn saved the day.

I have just read that part and still a little unclear

[DirePenguin]

I think he's just naturally selfish. And only does things to benefit himself. No real loyalty.

It's his privilege tho, I think the book does mention that his castle is really difficult to lay siege.

[Balefont]

The Late Lord Frey doesn't want to be accused of choosing sides in case he ends up throwing his lot in with the loser.

He is a Tully bannerman and the realm puts up with him because of his prime piece of real estate and large family.

[Glom]

I agree, it is surprising that Jon Arryn lasted as long as he did.

Jon Arryn seemed to have the same high morale as Eddard, but I guess he didn´t start of as bad and did not have that enemousity aginst the Lannisters. If I understood right, it was Arryn that convinced Robert to marry Cersei Lannister.

Some of Eddards objectives seem to be to expose Lannisters as criminals and to get the truth about Arryns death, and later also to get the truth about the assasination attempts on Bran. So he is really in for a battle against the Lannisters and his only real weapon seem to be his connections with the king. He seem determined and has probably accepted that in this game "you win or you die".

I am reading the swedish translation, but pages below will probably be almost the same.

As early as on page 186 he wants Catelyn to prepare the North for war against the Lannisters or even the whole realm.

Some time around there he also plans for himself how he shall expose the Lannisters and get Robert to expel Cersei and Jaime and if it came to war aginst Lannisters he was confident him and Robert would win.

So as user Savarin writes, it really looks like ol´Ned is toast if he stays in Kings Landing with those plans, the Lannisters will not have anything to gain from having him there.

[justashadow]

I think he's just naturally selfish. And only does things to benefit himself. No real loyalty.

It's his privilege tho, I think the book does mention that his castle is really difficult to lay siege.

I'm just finished the part where they have to cross through the Twins but the castle is closed. I found him cranky at first then, he seemed to soften a bit while chatting with Catelyn.

The Late Lord Frey doesn't want to be accused of choosing sides in case he ends up throwing his lot in with the loser.

He is a Tully bannerman and the realm puts up with him because of his prime piece of real estate and large family.

I can't believe how large the family is..he seems to be very proud of that.

I think there may be a few families that don't show sides.

[justashadow]

Jon Arryn seemed to have the same high morale as Eddard, but I guess he didn´t start of as bad and did not have that enemousity aginst the Lannisters. If I understood right, it was Arryn that convinced Robert to marry Cersei Lannister.

Some of Eddards objectives seem to be to expose Lannisters as criminals and to get the truth about Arryns death, and later also to get the truth about the assasination attempts on Bran. So he is really in for a battle against the Lannisters and his only real weapon seem to be his connections with the king. He seem determined and has probably accepted that in this game "you win or you die".

I am reading the swedish translation, but pages below will probably be almost the same.

As early as on page 186 he wants Catelyn to prepare the North for war against the Lannisters or even the whole realm.

Some time around there he also plans for himself how he shall expose the Lannisters and get Robert to expel Cersei and Jaime and if it came to war aginst Lannisters he was confident him and Robert would win.

So as user Savarin writes, it really looks like ol´Ned is toast if he stays in Kings Landing with those plans, the Lannisters will not have anything to gain from having him there.

Very true. At least Ned had Jon's sense of integrity.

[justashadow]

Well, I couldn't stop reading and finished the book…

Tyrion…off to Kings Landing to watch over Cersei…. Tywin knows that Joffrey isn't ruling wisely (being nice about this) and Cersei is loosing control of him. He is utterly displeased about Ned's death. He knows that Tyrion can perhaps regain authority there Poor Tyrion, he knew his father favoured Jaime. No matter how hard he tried, he just couldn't find his father's acceptance. With Jaimie captured, he may have a chance.

Arya – Ned must have known she'd be a survivor and that's why she had Sorel teach her how to use a sword. Ned ever doubted her skills. Thank goodness for finding Yoren….he will protect her until Winterfell.

Sansa's world is falling apart around her and she has no control now. She'd been so naive and "in love" and now she is learning her lesson, not to trust anyone or believe in love. Then being manipulated by the Queen. Joffrey is cruel and no matter what she does, she is going to the learn hard way as she has learnt through Meryn Trant.

Bran's dreams are so vivid. He and Rickon had the same dream. It seems Osha might be the one to decifer the dreams. It will be interesting to see what happens. Great foreshadowing there.

Jon wanted to do the right thing but his "oath" is his life. Sometimes choices are difficult to make. Mormont did try to counsel him, the best he could.

Catelyn - she has known she made poor choices. For her, she only wanted to find out who pushed Bran out the window and brought the wrong person to justice. Her sense of duty and loyalty is strong as a Stark and a Tully however, doing the right thing isn't always the best thing especially in her case. She does feel the need to counsel Robb because Ned is no longer here to do that.

Dany – It seems that her misfortune is her strength and she is the"Blood of Dragons". She is also lost in a land she doesn't know. She has grown courageous but not by choice. Her last chapter was quite an end to this story thus far.

A great first read..some characters have so much depth while others didn't change or where only in it for their own greed. Some of the minor characters seemed to have subplots that made the story more engaging. The plot, itself had so many twists and turns. Many unanswered questions but so much to think about. Martin has taken me on a journey, that's for sure. It deserves a second read for more understanding however, I'm anxious to start A Clash of Kings now and see how the story unfolds even more.

[DirePenguin]

Arya – Ned must have known she'd be a survivor and that's why she had Sorel teach her how to use a sword.

The kinda assumes Ned knew before hand that he'd be captured. I think the reason he got Syrio to teach Arya is just to keep her happy.

And I really don't think Jon's running away was the right thing to do :( If anything, it's the wrongest thing he could do.

To me, it felt that Catelyn's reason to stay by Robb's side was all ego . . . she just wanted to be in control. She is needed so much more in Winterfell with her children the way I see it. Not that Robb was without his own faults. But she really wasn't doing anything useful by his side.

[justashadow]

To me, it felt that Catelyn's reason to stay by Robb's side was all ego . . . she just wanted to be in control. She is needed so much more in Winterfell with her children the way I see it. Not that Robb was without his own faults. But she really wasn't doing anything useful by his side.

I definitely agree that she was needed at Winterfell. I don't a 3 year old can live without his mother ( I know my kids at that age still needed mommy). She did help Robb get through The Twins by talking to Walder Frey but really that was about it. Then again, the Tully motto is Family, Duty, Honor so perhaps she felt she should be with her father as he was dying. we know Lysa wouldn't have been there.