58 replies to this topic

[David Selig]

Theon never swore fealty to Robb in the books - why do people keep saying that? Give me one quote which supports this, just one. Nobody ever calls him oathbreaker.

[Darth Rivers]

Theon has no dick, so he cannot be AA. Eunuchs suck.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

David Selig, on 18 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Theon never swore fealty to Robb in the books - why do people keep saying that? Give me one quote which supports this, just one. Nobody ever calls him oathbreaker.

Chapter 14 AGOT he swears an oath to Cat and he says "Theon Greyjoy put a hand on the hilt of his blade and said, "My lady, if it comes to that, my House owes yours a great debt"

So no he doesn't pledge loyalty to the Starks buthe says his house owes hers a big debt. This could be interpreted by the reader as foreshadowing, Theon will "claim the lives" of two brothers like the ones he lost and Winterfell.
However, you could see how for the characters that counts as an oath right ?
I just see it as a bit of dramatic irony, the characters even Theon think he's swearing an oath to the starks but later on it turns out he pays his debt to them.

[David Selig]

This is not an oath of fealty. It's not an oath at all, actually.

BTW, I wonder what Theon meant by that line. What is the "great debt" his House owed to the Starks? Keeping him as ward/hostage (not much of a favor if any) or something else

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

David Selig, on 18 April 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

This is not an oath of fealty. It's not an oath at all, actually.

BTW, I wonder what Theon meant by that line. What is the "great debt" his House owed to the Starks? Keeping him as ward/hostage (not much of a favor if any) or something else

Im sorry I should have been more specific, in the page before Catelyn tells them that what she's about to tell them (About the attack to Bran) cannot be repeated elsewhere, then theon says that Eddard was like a father to him and that he swears it. Then he says that quote, my bad, that was misleading.
Yeah that's what I'm saying he doesn't swear an oath but that's what it feels like to the characters then he takes winterfell as they took Pyke

[isiman]

The Greenseer, on 17 April 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

The Northmen have no respect for Theon, and would not rally behind him. He is responsible for the burning of Winterfell and as far as the north knows, the deaths of Bran and Rickon. He would be a turncloak twice over.
  Theon may get the iron islands by some strange chance but nothing more, he's too foolish, impulsive and damaged.

Responsible for the burning?Really?It was Ramsey, the guy that tricked the northmen twice, he burn it.
Theon might be responsible for the death of the septon and Mikken, the first one which he was actually forced to drown by his men.But the rest?IIRC he actually protected a girl from rape (or punished the raper?).


I don't see how it is a huge deal with Theon taking Winterfell.I mean, he had a very difficult choice to make with no middleground, he choose his blood family so what difference it makes to raid only the Stony Shore or stepping up is "betrayal" by taking Winterfell?He decided which side he was on and so tried to gain the most from it. Theon cared for Robb and wanted to be his equal, didn't care for the rest, so no he never swore anything.Indeed he is never called oathbreaker.

[Leto]

David Selig, on 18 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Theon never swore fealty to Robb in the books - why do people keep saying that? Give me one quote which supports this, just one. Nobody ever calls him oathbreaker.

because he does in the show?

it doesn't matter what vows he took though, to the northmen he is theon turncloak and kinslayer.

[Teal'c]

From a literary standpoint, I think TPTWP and/or AAR will be an epic hero. Theon is much more a tragic hero - not an Odysseus but an Oedipus.

[Kyle Foster]

It's possible but Theon has been through so much that i see him having a possible glorious death in sacrificing himself to restore honor to his name for what he did to house Stark or saving someone and making a mental transformation into the Theon of old we saw with Robb, the loyal one. I think it's pretty obvious that Jon is AA and there is way too much hidden evidence for that to be stopped!

[Turkey Jack]

Boromir-Bloodstorm, on 17 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

The theory is, Pyke will be a bloody battle between Euron Vs. Theon, Damphair and Victarion. Fire on water as long ships are burnt - salt and smoke. Damphair will then drown Theon and Theon will thus be born again amidst smoke and salt - the smouldering ruins of the battle in the bay right before he is crowned King.

The trajectory seems to align, as Theon would finnally realize his place in the world and identity - who is Theon? He's a kraken, but a northerner and loved the Starks. What would Theon do? He'd destroy half of the Seven Kingdoms, that's what. He'd destory Bolton and the Bastard and reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. Sack Kings Landing and exact justice for Ned. And destory Highgarden because they stand with the Lannisters.

He'd sack Kings Landing and Highgarden himself with his Iron Fleet. The only question is, what happens to Stannis after Theon is sent back to the Islands? To take the north, Theon needs northmen. This makes me think it may actually be the Wildlings and Jon Snow he ends up fighting alongside rather than Stannis.


What do you think?

I like your logic but it will most likely be Dany who is reborn in the above scenario, Dany has the power to win the throne and will probably land in the west, if the Iron born has a civil war I doubt that they can sack KL even with their entire force that would be beyond them.  Alternatively Jon or Sam could be the drowned crow, and Theon the faceless/flayed man on the bridge.

Edited by Turkey Jack, 18 April 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Who would be Nissa Nissa ? Jeyne Poole ? Asha ?

[jarl the climber]

Theon is the Prince who was flayed.
Renly is the Prince who was Promised but only had a 90 day garuntee.
Stannis is the Prince that nobody wanted and kept regifting.
Ser Loras is the Prince who wanted to be a princess
Joffrey is the Prince who was bitch slapped(by a dwarf)
Tommen is the Prince who was Promised kittens

[drigoly]

would be great, but i'm almost sure that he will have a date with mels fire soon

[The Greenseer]

isiman, on 18 April 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Responsible for the burning?Really?It was Ramsey, the guy that tricked the northmen twice, he burn it.
Theon might be responsible for the death of the septon and Mikken, the first one which he was actually forced to drown by his men.But the rest?IIRC he actually protected a girl from rape (or punished the raper?).


I don't see how it is a huge deal with Theon taking Winterfell.I mean, he had a very difficult choice to make with no middleground, he choose his blood family so what difference it makes to raid only the Stony Shore or stepping up is "betrayal" by taking Winterfell?He decided which side he was on and so tried to gain the most from it. Theon cared for Robb and wanted to be his equal, didn't care for the rest, so no he never swore anything.Indeed he is never called oathbreaker.

He is seen as responsible, and if not for his actions it may have never happened.  Theon never had any honor, nor does he treat people with respect, and he has gone a little bit o'crazy. I just don't see someone with his lack of character inspiring anyone to serve under him. He has made numerous enemies, therefore I fearTheons days are numbered. It's only a matter of how and when.  He should have ridden back and served under Robb.  The Iron men don't want him as their leader, his dad was a prick to him, and his sister is ahead of him in line for leadership.
Wether or not he swore an oath, to turn on people who raised you kindly, and the innocents who served you, lock up children who you grew up with, who had to run for their lives...turncloak does seem accurate.

Edited by The Greenseer, 18 April 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[The Greenseer]

Oops meant to hit edit

Edited by The Greenseer, 18 April 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[isiman]

The Greenseer, on 18 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

He is seen as responsible, and if not for his actions it may have never happened.  Theon never had any honor, nor does he treat people with respect, and he has gone a little bit o'crazy. I just don't see someone with his lack of character inspiring anyone to serve under him. He has made numerous enemies, therefore I fearTheons days are numbered. It's only a matter of how and when.  He should have ridden back and served under Robb.  The Iron men don't want him as their leader, his dad was a prick to him, and his sister is ahead of him in line for leadership.
Wether or not he swore an oath, to turn on people who raised you kindly, and the innocents who served you, lock up children who you grew up with, who had to run for their lives...turncloak does seem accurate.

Again, he was in war.I really doubt that he could have escaped the Isles, which were in lockdown.Probably the only was other choice was to not take part in the fight at all, confined on Pyke.But is personality (made so by his "difficult" life) didn't allow it.

[Boromir-Bloodstorm]

EgoistMusketeer, on 17 April 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

What dragons out of stone is Theon awakening?

For real though, the only redemption Theon can get as a role is some sort of honorable death.  There is no coming back for him after the betrayal and Ramsay's ordeal.  Do you really want the prince that was promised to be a tormented, depressed, and possibly castrated, shadow of a man?

Yes. I want that.

I suppose you want a long haired, handsome, half naked man with a smooth oiled up chest and rippling muscles that shine in the sun on his tanned skin?

*Spews a little*

Tormented is the best sort of champion. His vengence would be deserved. And I don't really see Theon has much to redeem for. He never killed Bran and Rickon. And what else he did he did because he was either forced to or was torn between two rival families which he had no control over.

[Boromir-Bloodstorm]

Turkey Jack, on 18 April 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I like your logic but it will most likely be Dany who is reborn in the above scenario, Dany has the power to win the throne and will probably land in the west, if the Iron born has a civil war I doubt that they can sack KL even with their entire force that would be beyond them.  Alternatively Jon or Sam could be the drowned crow, and Theon the faceless/flayed man on the bridge.

I don't think Dany has what it takes. No one would want to follow her in Westeros. She's just not a very good ruler. As for her power, she does not have much where ADWD leaves off. I think Jon is much more lokely to be the Prince than Dany. I mean everyone expects it to be Dany - that's what all signs point to. The hidden clues that are real actually point to Jon, so you'd assume the twist would be there and that readers who are less clued in than what this online community is are in for a WTF moment when Jon emerges as a Targ and somebody special.

I don't think there's much weight in my idea about Theon, really. But it sounded cool.

[Longspear Ryk]

Kinda sounds like what happened to davos after blackwater