37 replies to this topic

[Maithanet]

Does anyone know if the show is going to cut Garlan?  He was always one of my favorite minor characters, but in the first five books, there isn't really anything that he does that Loras couldn't substitute for.  He wore Renly's armor because Loras wasn't big enough at the Blackwater.  Since Renly is a small man in the show, this isn't a problem.  He was present at the Purple Wedding, but again, Loras could do that too.  It would slightly complicate things to have Loras also be another kingsguard kingslayer, but since the Tyrells get away scot free, it won't much matter.

There's some real foreshadowing that he may be needed to face off against Ser Robert Strong in the Queens trials, but this is still speculation, and another character could very likely fill this role.

I hope that he is around, since I always liked those sneaky Tyrells and his scenes with Sansa and Tyrion were just great, if not exactly essential to the overall show.

[Aegnor]

Your post confuses me and makes me think I missed something. How would Loras be a Kingsguard kingslayer? I can't remember Garlan having any part in that that we know of. It was Olenna who actually did the deed (and likely Margerey played some part possibly).

Of the involvement he has so far in the series, his actions can easily be done by someone else. I do like his character, as he is one of the few people to recognize that Tyrion is the one that saved Kings Landing. But in a TV series that already has more characters than any other TV series in history, Garlan I am sure will not make it in (unless GRRM lets D&D know that there is some heretofore unrevealed reason why he must be included).

[dansnow]

I honestly can't think of a scene in the book where he interacted with any of the major characters, maybe a tourney? Of course I'm only starting my first reread so I may have missed stuff. Either way he definitely is cut when characters like the Reeds, Aeron and Ramsay got cut.

Edited by dansnow, 18 April 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Pliskin]

Maithanet, on 18 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

He wore Renly's armor because Loras wasn't big enough at the Blackwater.  Since Renly is a small man in the show, this isn't a problem.

Yeah. He's cut.

[The Monkey]

Yepp, he's gone. Wouldn't be surprised if they cut Mace too.

[Lord Varys]

Considering that there will be 20 episodes for ASoS, I don't see the need for that much cutting. Neither Mace nor Randyll Tarly will be cut (Davos already mentioned them, and this show is not going to mention characters we are not to see). The fact that no one will wear Renly's armor (since Renly does not wear any armor) will not need them to cut Garlan. I'm convinced we will see all of the Tyrells. Sure, Garlan will not be a major character, but neither is Rickon.

They have to show us that House Tyrell is influential, powerful, rich, and well connected. They won't accomplish this if they reduce the Tyrells to Loras and Margaery.

[Im With Stannis]

Renly wears armor. Its coated in velvet. They spent like five minutes on Renly's armor in the Renly preview on YouTube.

[DornishKnight]

Randyll Tarly could wear Renly's armor.

[Lord Varys]

Oh, well, then I think they will definitely not cut Garlan. He may not appear in season 2, but we will see 'Renly's ghost'. Putting Loras in Renly's armor will not fool anyone since Loras was close to Renly and should be seen fighting at his side. The whole plot about Renly's ghost will not be revealed until much later on...

[Aegnor]

Lord Varys, on 18 April 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Sure, Garlan will not be a major character, but neither is Rickon.

Are you certain Rickon isn't a major character? I'm convinced that GRRM told them that cutting Rickon would cause major issues for them later down the line. Otherwise I am sure Rickon would have been cut. He was kept in order to preserve some plot point that we haven't reached yet in the book series.

I am curious how they are going to resolve a serious issue of what they will do with Rickon, and how they will get him to Skagos.

[Donnycarko]

I'd say Garlan will certainly not be in the show. As to Mace, I think (or hope) he's in, since Davos mentioned him in 2x01. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll appear, but he definitely exists in the universe of the show, unlike Garlan I believe.

Edited by Donnycarko, 18 April 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I don't see how they could cut Mace Tyrell, given that he is to serve as Hand of the King during Tommen's reign. Plus he embodies the grasping nature of the Tyrells and their ascendancy into power after Cersei's downfall.

[Lord Varys]

Well, Rickon might become important in the future. And that's the very reason why I argue that they can't cut the Reeds either, since Osha has to take Rickon with her to Skagos. The Stark children must be split up - if Rickon was to go with Bran beyond the Wall, he won't come back. Winter has come, and Bran is about to take root and on his way to become a weirwood tree. If anyone is going to leave this hollow hill alive to return south of the Wall, it will be next spring when (or if) the Others are defeated. But the story dictates that Rickon returns to the game much more early (that is, if Davos does spend a few years at sea/on Skagos).

But the Tyrells have yet to get their spotlight moment in the novels. They only became the prominent power behind King Tommen in the Epilogue of ADwD. Considering the fact that a lot of battles will be fought in the Reach/against the Tyrells (i.e. Lord Paxter against Euron's fleet, Willas and Garlan against the Ironborn on the Shield Isles, the Golden Company against Mace's army, and the Dornishmen against Highgarden).
If Mace were to die, Willas may be the next Lord of Highgarden, but Garlan will be his strong right arm. He will command the troops of the Reach in battle, and since the Tyrells are far front spent he might actually become very important in the near future (fighting either for/against King Tommen/King Aegon.

Also considering the fact that there was as of yet no Tyrell body count we can assume with some certainty that this is going to change in the next volumes. If Mace was to die, they need at least Willas. And they need to establish Willas's existence anyway, since there is no way they will drop the whole Sansa-Willas plot, or the following marriage between Sansa and Tyrion.

If ASoS will be split about the Red Wedding, all of the KL scenes will have to be Tyrell-Lannister-plotting-scenes. They will not only have enough time to introduce Mace, Garlan, Olenna, Paxter, and Tarly, but there will also be enough time to do something with those characters.

[Hyper]

Assuming the S3/S4 split happens at the RW, they should be able to hold off casting Mace Tyrell until season 4. Heck, they might even hold off in introducing him until S5, when Margery and Cersei would go nuclear.

[FiveByeSeven]

I didn't even remember who Garlan was until I read your post. So yeah, I'm okay with him being cut. I can't even remember who he is.

For all we know it's Loras who's going to wear the armor in the show.

Edited by FiveByeSeven, 18 April 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Maithanet]

Aegnor, on 18 April 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Your post confuses me and makes me think I missed something. How would Loras be a Kingsguard kingslayer? I can't remember Garlan having any part in that that we know of. It was Olenna who actually did the deed (and likely Margerey played some part possibly).

Of the involvement he has so far in the series, his actions can easily be done by someone else. I do like his character, as he is one of the few people to recognize that Tyrion is the one that saved Kings Landing. But in a TV series that already has more characters than any other TV series in history, Garlan I am sure will not make it in (unless GRRM lets D&D know that there is some heretofore unrevealed reason why he must be included).

The cup that Joff drinks from is much too tall for Oleanna to have dropped poison into.  While it isn't conclusive, the most likely suspect is Garlan.  And while I also loved Garlan's conversation with Tyrion, you have to keep in mind that the Tyrells are playing Tyrion for a patsy, intending to frame him for Joff's murder.  It makes the kind (and accurate) words that Garlan gives Tyrion have a bit different flavor.  Loras could fill this role of poisoner (or they could have Oleanna do it and just have the cup be merely large rather than Stanley Cup Huge).

dansnow, on 18 April 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

I honestly can't think of a scene in the book where he interacted with any of the major characters, maybe a tourney? Of course I'm only starting my first reread so I may have missed stuff. Either way he definitely is cut when characters like the Reeds, Aeron and Ramsay got cut.

Garlan appears several times, but has three important scenes.
One, he wears Renly's armor at the Battle of the Blackwater, and kills several noteworthy knights.
Two, he talks with Sansa just prior to marrying Tyrion about how she must be feeling.  He says that Loras may be dreamy, but he wouldn't make a good husband and she should try and see the best in Tyrion.
Three, he talks with Tyrion just before Joff is poisoned, and then (likely) places the poison in the goblet to kill the King.  Good work Garlan, we were all waiting for someone to kill him.

I agree that all three of those scenes could be done with someone else (Loras for #1 and #3, and probably Margery for #2), so there's a real chance that he gets cut.  But I'm holding out hope that they'll introduce him in season three.

FiveByeSeven, on 18 April 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I didn't even remember who Garlan was until I read your post.

That's a shame, he's awesome.

[Pliskin]

Maithanet, on 19 April 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Three, he talks with Tyrion just before Joff is poisoned, and then (likely) places the poison in the goblet to kill the King.  Good work Garlan, we were all waiting for someone to kill him.

Wut, I always thought it was Olenna.

[Maithanet]

Pliskin, on 19 April 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Wut, I always thought it was Olenna.

It was Olenna's plan, certainly.  But if you read the description of the scene, she would have to stand on a chair to reach high enough to get the poison into the cup, or throw it in.  Not likely (she's crafty, but she's still an old woman and very short).  So the remaining suspects would be Margery and Garlan, who were both sitting near enough to do it.  Garlan is the more likely since a lot fewer people are watching him than the Queen.

[Arkash]

I think the appropriate choice would be, yes, to put Loras in Renly's armor... would be in the same time quite romantic, and in the other, reminding the viewers of the existence of Loras by giving him a badass scene to do.

[Crown]

Arkash, on 19 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

I think the appropriate choice would be, yes, to put Loras in Renly's armor... would be in the same time quite romantic, and in the other, reminding the viewers of the existence of Loras by giving him a badass scene to do.

Definitely.

Garlan is not necessary for the story, therefore he'll be cut. On the other side, Mace, he's really important in he story-arc concerning Cersei's downfall, and they could also cut Olenna and put her character in Margaery and Mace. Which I think they'll be doing.